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March 30

Proper Way to Observe a Baptism

Hello. One of my immediate family members is getting baptized after service finishes. In order to attend the baptism, should I attend the service? (I have not attended service for a while. At this time, I do not know whether I am a follower of the religion.) I would like your honest opinion. Thanks very much in advance. --76.64.12.49 (talk) 00:03, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Details will depend on the church and its denomination, but often the baptism will be considered as part of the service (albeit happening at the end) and general members of the congregation will remain, to celebrate the event and welcome the new member formally to the church. As such, it may be uncommon for people to arrive just for the baptism (and difficult to time right); some celebrants and congregations might consider doing so disrespectful. Whether to sit through the whole service is a matter for your own conscience: you wouldn't be the first quasi-believer to thole a service for the sake of a loved one's feelings. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 00:52, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

You might be interested in the book How to be a Perfect Stranger (conveniently readable on Google Books, at least in part), which is a guide to attending other people's religious observances. It's almost universally considered appropriate to attend other people's religious ceremonies, regardless of your own beliefs. (Different denominations and churches have different rules about who may take communion, though. It's always acceptable to abstain if unsure.) Paul (Stansifer) 03:08, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Non-believers are usually strongly welcomed in protestant traditions, especially at baptismal services. If you're familiar to a lot of people in the church, you'll likely have some questions about whether you'll be coming the next week, etc. You don't have to agree to do so. You can politely decline. Turning up to just the baptismal section might be considered a statement of unbelief. Care should be taken if you choose that to be subtle about it.

In a lot of adult baptism services (and many infant baptism services), the congregation is invited to promise to support the baptisee in their spiritual development. It's not impolite to remain silent if you don't agree (in fact, it may be rude to do so if you do not agree). It's polite to decline a communion/eucharist if you're not a believer. In some churches you can ask a priest for a blessing instead. If in doubt, ask someone. Christians are usually encouraged to welcome visitors and answer questions. Steewi (talk) 04:34, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

It would be rude to shout "Blasphemy!" during the service. Remaining silent would be quite appropriate and supportive. Edison (talk) 05:15, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Paul's link to How to be a Perfect Stranger looked interesting, but I got a "No preview available". Temporary or regional problems, or an incorrect link? Astronaut (talk) 13:33, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Must be one of those regional things; it came up for me in the U.S. Deor (talk) 17:54, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

I think that Google Books may restrict access based on location sometimes (I'm not sure). I was able to see it from two different locations in the US. I bet it's available at libraries. Paul (Stansifer) 18:00, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Chinese male face with political tentacles

does any one know what the chinese male face with eight tenticles and political saying written in them means...its a picture with references to the 1800"s... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.200.200.120 (talk) 08:56, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

A nonce image needs a visual reference if it's to be explained. Any on-line source?--Wetman (talk) 12:01, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

No idea what you are referring to, but based on the description (tentacles, 1800s) I'd venture it was similar to this one? ~ Amory (u • t • c) 15:07, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

That's not political, it's erotic. (Unless one considers erotica to be political.) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:55, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Everyone make a note of this: Bugs finds this drawing erotic. Comet Tuttle (talk) 16:33, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Not really. But a woman might. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:00, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

And it would be good if someone could take a shot at translating the writing. It could be something like, "Slowly, Squidward peeled off her kimono, exposing her lovely..." or it could just be a set of recipes for squid sushi. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:05, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

I have read that a lot of pornographic work in the 18th-19th centuries was political satire. I'm not looking for the source for this, because I'm at work. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 11:31, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

This is a famous woodcut known as The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife. It was made around 1820 by the Japanese artist Hokusai; we even have an article on the genre it apparently started, tentacle erotica. BrainyBabe (talk) 10:03, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I wonder if the kind of picture being discussed is probably the classic "octopus taking over the world" type of political portrait. E.g. [1] [2] [3] [4], content6.clipmarks.com/image_cache/ammcc/512/8A7EA55B-AF28-4EA9-A58B-1371B5A0083B.gif, content7.clipmarks.com/image_cache/ammcc/512/41675F32-FFB5-4A81-88DD-DBAB347C3688.jpg (last two cannot be linked because of irritating spam filter). In all cases these usually are just meant to expanding influence/power of the feared people/country/group. Its a pretty generic form of propaganda—put anything you want as the octopus (the US, the USSR, the Chinese, the Jews, the Nazis, the Communists, Microsoft). --Mr.98 (talk) 16:30, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

FAA Violations

Has there ever been a case of a civilian getting arrested after dropping something out of a plane? I'm positive this would be against regulations but I imagine this must happened at some point. Like has a crazy person ever thrown heavy objects and been charged with a felony? TheFutureAwaits (talk) 13:28, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

"...dropping something..." Like what? A conscripted airman dropping bombs on the enemy during wartime, or these guys parachuting with their car? Astronaut (talk) 13:50, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

That's why I specified civilian. Specifically something dangerous like tennis balls over a neighborhood. TheFutureAwaits (talk) 14:22, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

In the US the relevant law would be 14 CFR 91.15, entitled Dropping Objects, which reads:

No pilot in command of a civil aircraft may allow any object to be dropped from that aircraft in flight that creates a hazard to persons or property. However, this section does not prohibit the dropping of any object if reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury or damage to persons or property.

anonymous6494 14:52, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Right, so has anyone ever been prosecuted for violating this law? 199.172.169.33 (talk) 14:56, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Incidentally, tennis balls probably wouldn't be very dangerous. They are quite low density, which means their terminal velocity would be fairly low. If my calculation is correct, it would be roughly 26 m/s. A professional tennis serve is more like 55 m/s and they don't cause too much damage if you get hit by one (it hurts, though!). --Tango (talk) 15:17, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

I once was hit by a (non-professionally served) tennis ball squarely on the right ear. I can attest to the pain, and it also causes quite bad dizziness for a minute or so. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 15:36, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Haha okay bowling balls then. Has any civilian ever been prosecuted for dropping heavy objects? TheFutureAwaits (talk) 15:43, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Presumably a small private plane flying at low altitude that could be opened without sucking everyone out, and then presumably something could be drop. That wouldn't happen with a commercial airliner, or if it did, the one who did it would be in a lot bigger trouble than just for dropping something from the plane. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:54, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes exactly I'm thinking it would have been out of a small craft like a Cesna. Perhaps a pilot just making a dumb decision? TheFutureAwaits (talk) 16:09, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

This looks like a job for Google. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:12, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Or a Stuff Jump gone wrong. --Tango (talk) 16:14, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

While I don't know the answer to this question, I can testify that it's easy to open small airplanes without problems. The majority of the pictures in Commons:Category:Aerial pictures by User:Nyttend were taken through partially-open windows of a Diamond Eclipse or a Diamond Star. Nyttend (talk) 23:53, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Erm, just a point here: Aircraft cabins are airtight, are they not?--Editor510 ^{drop us a line, mate} 13:05, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Never drop a turkey from an aircraft. Woogee (talk) 02:52, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Or a Coke bottle. —Kevin Myers 06:01, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Angel(?) Danyal

Hello together, does anyone know anything about the (fallen?) angel(?) Danyal, maybe mentioned in the Book of Enoch? An casual online acquaintaince of mine asked who he is, I didn't know; today I've been to the library of the local university, but I coulnd't find anything specific. Maybe it has also to do with islamic mystics/angelology. Could you please help me? Thanks in advance! --137.250.100.49 (talk) 15:05, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Restored question deleted without explanation by another person. Astronaut (talk) 18:54, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia has a small article about Daniel (angel) and a much bigger one about the Book of Enoch. Adam Bishop (talk) 19:23, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes, that is it, thanks. --Atlan da Gonozal (talk) 19:26, 30 March 2010 (UTC) (IP)

Unknown Asimov book?

When I was a boy, I read a book that I believe was written by Isaac Asimov, but I'm not entirely sure. All I can remember was the ending: because humans lived either (1) on other planets, or (2) in spaceships, and because all energy used by humans was generated by tons of satellites ringing the sun, Earth was uninhabited and seen as an obstacle to progress; consequently, the leaders of the humans were sending in spaceships to blow up Earth to get it out of the way. Any idea what the name of this book might be? Nyttend (talk) 23:45, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

That doesn't sound like Asimov. The concept of artificial satellites completely surrounding the sun is called a Dyson sphere and I don't think of it as an Asimov theme. Check Dyson spheres in fiction and see if anything looks promising. 66.127.52.47 (talk) 04:36, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Well, it sounds more like a Dyson Ring than a Dyson Sphere. --Tango (talk) 10:29, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I have read a lot of Asimov's work and that plot doesn't sound familiar. Was it a full book or a short story? (Asimov wrote a lot of short stories.) --Tango (talk) 10:29, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I can't remember for sure, but now that you ask, a short story does seem rather possible; I vaguely remember reading several Asimov stories around the same time, but only checking out one or two books from the library. The only other work that I read at that time about which I remember anything was something about life on other planets; he proposed that Jupiter was habitable (I guess maybe he didn't know how much pressure there was on the surface?) and thought that Pluto was as large as Earth. Nyttend (talk) 12:18, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

The IP suggests that I look at Dyson spheres in popular culture; while it mentions one Asimov work, "The Last Question", it's plainly not that. It was definitely some sort of Dyson sphere, although I can't remember whether or not a ring, sphere, shell, etc. was the proper description. Nyttend (talk) 12:24, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

OK, I recall that ST:TNG episode about the Dyson sphere, and here's what I didn't get and still don't. It was depicted as being a solid shell. Forgetting the practical question of how you would assemble it and what the environmental impact would be, where would the raw materials come from? You're talking about something that's way much larger than the sun, and no matter how thin you make it, it's still going to require melting down a a lot of planets to build it from. Anyone know the (theoretical) answer? I didn't see anything about it in the article, but maybe I missed it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:04, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Replicators. Duh! --Stephan Schulz (talk) 14:08, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I see. I don't buy it, but I see. It sounds like the equivalent of the old theory of skimming hundredths of cents of interest on bank accounts and turning yourself into a millionaire. Never mind that the bank would have to have about 100 million accounts in order to achieve that. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:33, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't think you understand the principles of Star Trek physics. A replicator is an example of Plot-Based Technology (tm). It can produce everything needed by the plot, and nothing that would destroy the plot. It can, for example, make "tea, Earl Grey, hot", whenever Picard wants it, but no drinking water when the plot is to obtain water. So if the plot calls for a Dyson sphere, it can make a Dyson sphere, but it will be hard-pressed to make the penicillin that would safe the last of the Dyson Sphere Engineer from the Klingon influenza. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 17:58, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

You mean salami slicing? Googlemeister (talk) 16:36, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

This is explained very well in the first Ringworld book. In fact, the "ringworld" in that book was built precisely because a true Dyson sphere would require far too many raw materials to be practical. Even building a ringworld would require an entire solar system worth of materials. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 16:23, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm confused — are you suggesting that I'm remembering a Star Trek book? I've never read anything of Star Trek, so it can't be that. Nyttend (talk) 14:27, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Answer: Fiction. It's always a plot hole. The article itself points out that there probably isn't enough mass in the solar system to make a shell. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 14:32, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Marrow features something much larger than a Dyson sphere. It was built by nanomachines completely disassembling a gas giant. Staecker (talk) 16:28, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Our article talks about a ship the size of a gas giant - that is much, much smaller than a Dyson sphere. --Tango (talk) 16:41, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Our Dyson sphere#Dyson shell section has a paragraph about where to get the building material. Dyson originally wrote there was probably enough material in our solar system to make a 1 AU Dyson shell that was 3 meters thick; but this incorporated hydrogen and helium, which are "not much use as building material", as our article primly puts it; so you'd use nuclear fusion to convert lots of hydrogen and helium into stuff like iron that's more useful. A later estimate by some other guy, excluding the hydrogen and helium, thought you could make a Dyson shell 8 to 20 centimeters thick, based on the already-usable material in our solar system. Most of this is the metallic cores of Jupiter and Saturn. Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:31, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I have a suspicion such a project would prove to be about as useful as the Great Wall of China, only at much greater expense. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:48, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Having though long and hard about this I wonder if Larry Niven is your author? He wrote about Ringworld which is a possible Dyson Sphere compromise and the Pierson's Puppeteers blew up their sun and moved out the planets in a Trajan rosette....hotclaws 19:13, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it's by Niven. The plot sounds sort of familiar to me too. I'm imagining a more jocular writer like R. A. Lafferty. And everyone knows that Dyson rings/spheres/shells are made of scrith. ;) 66.127.52.47 (talk) 09:05, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Moral terpitude

What is this?--79.76.190.44 (talk) 23:59, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Gross moral turpitude is "raping large numbers of nuns", according to Howard Kirk. However you probably want this article to tell you the normally understood meaning. Sam Blacketer (talk) 00:10, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

March 31

Aryan vs. Japanese racial superiority

Hitler and the Nazis claimed racial superiority. Everyone else was supposedly racially inferior. Why would the Japanese, who also claimed racial superiority, choose to fight on the side of a dictator who thought they were a mongrel race? Why would the Italians? They're not exactly blond haired and blue eyed either. Wouldn't Japan and Germany eventually have to face off against one another? Was this point exploited by Allied propaganda? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sammeg01 (talk • contribs) 02:48, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

See Honorary Aryan. Woogee (talk) 02:54, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Justification and true reasons can be different, you know. Just because they justified their actions by claiming racial superiority, it doesn't mean that they actually believed it. People usually only make bold claims ('Aryan blood is pure blood! All else is inferior!') when the veracity of those claims is dubious to begin with. See Big Lie. Vranak (talk) 03:00, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Wartime makes for peculiar alliances. Such as the partnership with Joe Stalin's USSR. Right after the war, they became the enemy and Germany and Japan became essentially allies (the situation parodied in 1984.) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:04, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

One should realize that slogans for the unwashed masses are but a pale second to expediency and politics, and always remember the old sayings: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" and "war and politics make strange bedfellows". Flamarande (talk) 13:27, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Indeed. We fought two wars against the British, yet here we are allied with them. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:59, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Germany too...

For further info on that point, listen to Tom Lehrer's song "MLF Lullaby" (a proposal which, perhaps thankfully, was never realized). ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:28, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Our Dumb Century noticed this and unearthed for us all a fake front-page news story dated September 1, 1939, entitled, "Japan Forms Alliance With White Supremacists in Well-Thought-Out Scheme". (If you are unfortunate enough to not have access to the book, this link seems to have the news story.) It concludes with a quote from Hitler on the occasion: "I salute you, chinky-dinky rat men, who have been given life by the confused hand of some long-dead pagan deity," he said. "When Germany stands victorious on a conquered Earth, and Aryan supermen wipe out the undesirable mud races one by one, your like will surely survive to be among the last to be exterminated." Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:20, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Hitler had a great admiration for Italy, both for its Fascist politics and for its artistic richness (he was a failed painter). Nazi scientists even declared that the ancient Roman people were of pure nordic blood (I think they found some rune inscriptions in Val Camonica). Hitler decided not to invade Sud Tirol, an ethnic germanic region in Italy, he instead gave to Italy egemony over the Mediterranean sea. Not every Nazi official thought the same (Goebbles was annoyed by the fact that Italians were offended when considered different form Germans). Hitler was also admired by the total devotion of Japanese people for their Emperor (he had the same feelings for Muslims), but he undoubtely considered them an inferior race (when asked about his alliance with Japan, Hitler said that he would be more than happy to make a deal with the devil himself in order to win the war). I think that's also important to note that the principal policy of Nazi Germany was Realpolitik. When Mussolini was defeated, Germany planned to annex large parts of North-Eastern Italy and even to reward Cossak Nazi fighters with Carnia (it was to be called Kosakenland). Hitler initially intended to keep Netherlands as a partial indipendent nation just to maintain their colonies in the East. When they promised Dutch colonies to Japan, they changed their mind and decided to integrate Netherlands as a province of the Reich. Hitler was initially more than eager to give to Britain free hand over their Empire in exange of total German domination over central Europe. Hitler was extremely skilful when it comes to flatter other nations and people with incredibly big prospects: to Italy a New Roman Empire, to Hungary egemony over the Pannonian plain, to Bulgaria Macedonia and eastern Greece, to Finland parts of Russia (for example Karelia), to Japan the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere, ... --151.51.45.45 (talk) 19:11, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes, a failed painter. I'm reminded of Samuel Beckett's "To be an artist is to fail as no others dare fail". Hitler certainly dared to do things that nobody else would have dreamed of doing. But not in a good way. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 20:30, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

If human life is taken as inviolable, certainly. If not -- well it's an ugly stew but it's been frequently served throughout antiquity, and even today. Vranak (talk) 21:00, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

primal fear and catatonia

Does primal fear/self preservation override catatonia- for example, would a vicious, barking german shepherd leaping at someone snap them out of a fixed catatonic position? How about something like the room being on fire? Would they respond to any external stimulus (i.e. reflex actions like pulling your hand away from a flame or blinking the eye when an object comes at your face quickly)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sammeg01 (talk • contribs) 03:06, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I would look to Thích Quảng Đức as an example that would suggest otherwise, although a barking dog may have a little more force and personality than mere flame. Vranak (talk) 14:21, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Since catatonia is often considered to be an extreme form of fear reaction, an increase in the level of fear would be unlikely as a solution - it's more likely to deepen the state. --Ludwigs2 15:28, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Exactly. Deer in the headlights and so on. What, no article? No mention in the deer article? Vranak (talk) 15:38, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Cite references, you slobs. Our Catatonia article does not claim it's "often considered to be an extreme form of fear reaction", probably because it is not. Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:08, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Please be polite. For your good as well as ours. Vranak (talk) 18:54, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

An Interesting GK Question

I am looking for the place which is the birth place of

1. one of America's most popular female singers, 2. the mother of one of America's most distinguished senators 3. America's youngest political office holders of all time

It was also long time home to one of America's favorite fathers

I would appreciate any help —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.93.76.229 (talk) 14:30, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Can you direct us to the URL of this quiz? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:17, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

How much money is in it for the Reference Desk? We need some hard disk upgrades. Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:06, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Well the youngest president was Theodore Roosevelt, he was born in New York. THere's many a famous female singers from New York and no doubt many distinguished senators from there too. Not sure if 'youngest political office holder' means President or just youngest person in the senate/congressman who my google-fu suggests was Harold Ford Jr who was born in Memphis - which is home to Tina Turner (though isn't she from Nutbush?) 194.221.133.226 (talk) 15:19, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes, she is from Nutbush, which, contrary to the song "Nutbush City Limits," is actually unincorporated and therefore has no city limits. It's not rare but not unheard-of for teenagers to be elected to city councils in the U.S.; there has even been an 18-year-old mayor in Michigan and an 18-year-old state legislator in Ohio. It's hard to imagine a younger office holder outside of a monarchy. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 20:55, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Brian Zimmerman was elected mayor of Crabb, Texas at the age of 11 in a landslide. (He got 23 of the 30 votes cast.) I don't think anyone else remotely famous came out of that town. Many others were elected at the age of 18. See List of the youngest mayors in the United States. —D. Monack ^talk 07:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

"Most distinguished senators" makes me think of Ted Kennedy, whose mother was from Boston, as is Donna Summer. Don't know about the young office holders. And what about those favorite fathers. Maybe a television program like The Cosby Show? 83.81.42.44 (talk) 18:26, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Cheers? The father in question could be Frasier Crane, but that is a bit of a stretch, because I don't think his son Frederick was seen very much. 83.81.42.44 (talk) 18:41, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

The quiz's answer has been published: Muskogee, Oklahoma. Carrie Underwood, John McCain's mother, Robert Reed, and a teenage mayor. 63.17.44.82 (talk) 04:33, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Has the UK population become very much more intelligent in recent decades?

I've nothing against lots of people going to university, but I'm curious about the statistics. When I went to university only about the top ten percent of the ability range did so in the UK. But this article http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8596504.stm says that around 50% now do so. I'm surprised that someone with an IQ of 100 (or less) should be able to complete a university degree.

What is the explaination? Has the population become considerably more intelligent in recent decades, so that an average IQ is the equivalent of an IQ of 125 or more in the past? Or is there some other explaination? Thanks 78.147.25.63 (talk) 16:03, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

In the US, the comparable phenomenon could be explained as devaluation of the degree.--Wetman (talk) 16:07, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Well, the degree may have been devalued, but that's perhaps the result not the cause...the cause may be that the educational system is able to get people to a higher level of learning (not be confused with intelligence) than they once were, and the economic ability for more people to go to college (US)/university (UK)...--达伟 (talk) 16:17, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Or, in other words, "dumbing down" the curriculum. StuRat (talk) 16:16, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Average intelligence isn't going to increase in a few decades via evolution, as that would take many thousands of years and a strong evolutionary pressure (such as stupid people all dying). You could possibly increase intelligence that quickly by artificial means, such as eugenics or genetic engineering, but obviously that hasn't happened anywhere, yet. StuRat (talk) 16:16, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

However, the mean value of IQ test scores (which may or may not correlate with whatever we call "intelligence") has certainly been observed to increase over time - this is called the Flynn effect. IQ tests are re-normalised periodically to correct for this (so that the mean score is set back to 100). Gandalf61 (talk) 16:19, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

That would be because learned behavior can change far more rapidly the biological evolution could. And my personal observations would indicate that genes account for less then upbringing. Googlemeister (talk) 16:35, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

There have been various explanations of the Flynn effect from statistical anomalies or people being more used to the style of test to better education or even better nutrition. The article has some discussion of possible causes. --Tango (talk) 16:47, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

IQ is a measure of ability to do IQ tests, it doesn't necessarily correlate particularly strongly with ability to perform well in higher education. It is probably a combination of better primary and secondary education and devalued degrees. It is very difficult to get conclusive evidence for this kind of thing, though. You can't, for example, just give a 1960s exam to current students and see how they do, since they haven't been taught to the same syllabus. --Tango (talk) 16:47, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but you're exactly wrong there. The only thing IQ scores correlate strongly with is the ability to do well in higher education. --Carnildo (talk) 00:02, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

In the US, the general result is that the "bottom" has expanded a lot in the last many decades. The top is still the top, but there are tons of opportunities for non-top-10% students to get degrees of one sort or another. Amongst academics it is pretty common knowledge that the students at these schools (mostly the ever-increasing state schools that are at the bottom of the prestige system) are on the whole a lot less prepared and able to perform than students at the more competitive schools. I only offer this up as a caveat to the "dumbing down" approach—it's not that the entire system needs to be "dumbed down" to accommodate more people of less skill, it just requires that you create more places that are less competitive and have lower standards. The "good" students are still on the whole going to "good" universities. It's just that there are more places available for students who wouldn't otherwise be able to get into the top schools (for a variety of reasons, not just intelligence). --Mr.98 (talk) 16:46, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

This is about the UK. What about these "Foundation" degrees that I've vaguely heard about? Does everyone take the kind of degree I did, or are there watered down lower-ability versions now that are still called "degrees"? 78.147.25.63 (talk) 16:48, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Foundation degree explains it. It isn't equivalent to a regular degree, it's a vocational qualification that takes a year or two. Officially, all Bachelors degrees are equal (although they come in different classifications - 1st, 2:1, 2:2, 3rd and pass), but in reality a degree from a better university is better. Degrees in different subjects have very different earning potentials as well. --Tango (talk) 17:49, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Well, they've gotten smart enough that they're slowly taking back their empire, using brains and not just braun. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:54, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure that the only barrier to higher education today or in the past has been a lack of ability. If only 10% of Britons attended university at some time in the past, I doubt that they were the top 10% purely in terms of ability. Class and class expectations surely played a role. An intellectually gifted son of a mechanic might have been convinced by his family and even his secondary-school teachers that it would be a waste of his time to try for university and that he should attend a trade school instead. I don't live in the UK, but my sense is that class prejudice has lessened in recent decades. Similarly, intelligent young women might have been discouraged from attending university in the past because it would complicate their marriage prospects or be a waste of time for a person whose object in life was marriage and motherhood. This is obviously no longer true. The result may be that today's undergraduates are not much less able than the students of years past, but that they are more numerous because they come from a wider range of backgrounds. Marco polo (talk) 18:18, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

So now all the hairdressers and car-mechanics are getting foundation degrees? (Excuse me showing a flash of intellectual snobbery). In other words its just a renaming of whatever they did before? 78.147.25.63 (talk) 18:33, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Another change that has taken place in the UK and other developed economies in recent decades is the decline in manufacturing, agricultural, and artisanal employment, which did not require a university degree, and a dramatic increase in "white-collar" jobs requiring a university degree. I'm not sure whether hairdressers and car mechanics in the UK need university degrees. I rather doubt it. However, the denizens of the vast office complexes that have sprung up in city centers and near motorway junctions since the 1960s are required to have university degrees. So there has been a change not only in the supply of degree candidates but also in the demand for degrees. Again, I don't think that we can necessarily draw any conclusions from this about the qualifications of the degree candidates. Marco polo (talk) 20:33, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Any useful measure of intelligence will include just that -- a defined measure. General knowledge of the arts, sciences, world events, facts and trivia -- is that what you are asking about 78.147? Vranak (talk) 20:56, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Some other factors in the UK... 1) Many more university places than 30 years ago and many Polytechnics are now universities. 2) Teachers are much more focussed on exam success than previously - it now affects their career prospects and the success of the school is measured in results. This was not the case 30 years ago. 3) A Levels used to be marked so that a fixed percentage of those sitting the exam received a specific grade (ie maybe only the top 10% would get an "A" grade). Now there is only a 3% failure rate. Alansplodge (talk) 08:51, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Being a citizen of the UK, my impartial, well-reasoned, highly-intelligent and unequivocal answer is: yes --Jubilee♫clipman 12:09, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

---

78.147.25.63 -- Thirty years ago, the UK had a lower proportion of college-educated people than most other developed (OECD) countries, and this was considered by some to be an obstacle to economic competitiveness. The change has been probably at least partially because of deliberate policy changes... AnonMoos (talk) 23:22, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Impossible feats of heroism?

I was doing some research on my great-great-grandfather, and I found some records of his particularly impressive. So impressive, in fact, that I find it hard to believe that he was actually involved in both in so short of a time. First we have the 1917 article "Northern New York Man Gets Medal for Heroism", where Chief Gunner's Mate John F. Woolshlager of Castorland is given a letter of commendation from the Navy for saving the life of a man on the USS Wyoming during WWI. It goes on to say that he will be re-enlisting in the Navy later that year. Then we have this citation, the Distinguished Service Cross, being given to First Lieutenant John F. Woolshlager (again, of Castorland) for heroism in the battle of Grand Pre in 1918. My great-grandfather, his son, born 1921, is the only other John F. Woolshlager I can find. So, my question is this: could these two records really be talking about the same guy, or is the only conclusion that there were three generations of John F. Woolshlager's in Castorland? (Or maybe something I haven't thought of?) —Akrabbim^talk 16:13, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

They could certainly be talking about the same person, though he would have had to be promoted from enlisted to officer in the time between. There does not seem to be a wikipedia article for the battle of Grand Pre in 1918, only the one in 1747. Googlemeister (talk) 16:30, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Not only would he have to have been promoted to officer status, but would have to have transferred from Navy to Infantry. Of course the US joined WWI between the two, so it is just possible that John F. Woolshlager thought he could serve his country better in the Infantry during time of war. How big was the barrier between enlisted and officer class in the US in 1917? I know that in the UK officer status was very much a class thing, and promotions to officer were very rare. DJ Clayworth (talk) 16:42, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Promotions in the navy were not to do with class, but with proving oneself in battle, the problem was that naval battles were very rare in the decades prior to 1914. 80.47.196.55 (talk) 17:23, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

It is true that before WWI being commissioned from the ranks was fairly unusual, but it became considerably less so during the war due to the rapid expansion of the armed forces, and of course the Chief of the Imperial General Staff for part of the war had himself risen from trooper in cavalry regiment to field marshal, see William Robertson.

In answer to the actual question, it's certianly not impossible, I don't know how availble US census records are for that era, for the UK I'd be checking the 1911 census to see if there were other people with that name - immigration records might also show if there were others. David Underdown (talk) 18:42, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

You could always submit a request for records to the Personnel recordscenter in St Louis for his military records and see what it says. Chances are good his navy record may still be there although a large amount of the Army records (about 80 million) were destroyed in the 73 records fire. You could also contact the Naval Historical Center or libary/archives at the washington Navy Yard and see if they haev anything on him. They may not have a bio on him on hand but they maintain all the cruise logs for naval vessels and have lists of personnel, ship crews, certain awards, etc and tey might be able to look that up for you. --Kumioko (talk) 18:46, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I was going to say the same thing about looking up his records. I looked up my grandfather's military record and it didn't take very long for them to send them to me. The xerox copies they sent showed evidence of both charring around the edges and water damage. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 20:20, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

The LDS have digitized all names in the 1880 US census and made them public [5]. No Woolshlagers there. The guy you know about was quite likely not born then, but this can be an indication that he did not have a father with the same name who lived in the US in 1880. Of course, his father could have immigrated after 1880, changed his name, have had his name misspelled, or be missing in the records even if he lived in the country at the time. Jørgen (talk) 19:11, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Summary of material removed: Same man was found in 1900, 1910, and 1920 federal census, and in 1920 he was living in an army hospital, listed as a patient, and notes that he was an army officer. Auntieruth55 (talk) 17:38, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

It looks like you found them in the 1900 Census as well. Auntieruth55 (talk) 19:56, 31 March 2010 (UTC) Auntieruth55 (talk) 19:51, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

If anyone else is wondering (as I did) Grandpre is in the Argonne Forest; the battle took place in October 1918. The best map I could quickly find was provided by a hotelier [[6]] Zoonoses (talk) 00:26, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Wouldn't you know, WHAAOE - Grandpré, Ardennes. I couldn't find it earlier since I was looking under "Grand Pre". Auntieruth, I guess that census material confirms that he did somehow jump from enlisted Navy to Army officer somewhere between 1917 and 1918. Thanks for all the help everybody. Just as a side note, I don't suppose that those two events of recognition would qualify for Wikipedia's notability requirements? (I started a userspace draft just in case.) I'm thinking it's possible, but I'm not keeping my hopes up. —Akrabbim^talk 02:11, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't think he quite makes notability, although the hedaline of the first article refers to a medal, the body of the article seems to suggest it was more a letter of commendation, and it's generally been held that only (for the US military) Medal of Honor recipients where we can assume notability - see WP:MILPEOPLE. The articles Forest of Argonne and Meuse-Argonne Offensive should help give you a better idea of what was going on at the time. David Underdown (talk) 08:54, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Notability in the greater world is not the same thing as notability at home. You might consider showing your documents to the local VFW or American Legion post. Some of them have museums displaying documents and medals and photographs. You might get free drinks for a while (until they start asking when you're going to West Point....) Zoonoses (talk) 02:02, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

What happened to old Chinese coins when dynasties fell?

Thanks. Imagine Reason (talk) 16:58, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Ancient coins, unlike most modern ones, had value because of the precious metals they contained. Therefore, the old coins would have retained their value. The new dynasty might have offered a trade-in period where the old coins could be traded for the new ones (and then melted down the old ones to create more new ones). If not, the old coins would likely stay in circulation along with the new until they became rare enough, due to normal attrition, that people started keeping them as collector's items. And, even if there was a trade-in period, some old coins would survive in ship wrecks, buried in people's back yards, etc. StuRat (talk) 17:12, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

That seems to be the most logical explanation for it. It would have basically been an exchange ("Give us your old coins, we'll melt them down and give you new coins"); essentially the same idea as the modern gold exchange, except that the thing you got back also had value. Cam ^(Chat) 18:12, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Remember, the Chinese fully understood that the "value" was largely conventional: they invented paper money (as well as the paper it was printed on and the technology of printing with ink). The coinage that remained in circulation was not necessarily the newest, but the most debased, i/e. the coins with the least intrinsic "value": "Bad money drives out good".--Wetman (talk) 19:02, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Did Bill Gates start Microsoft with his parents' money?

The article History of Microsoft didn't say, or I didn't see it. Thanks.20.137.18.50 (talk) 18:54, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Triumph of the Nerds has quite a bit about the origin of Micro-Soft. Between it and History of Microsoft we get that he remained at Harvard (using Harvard's computers) until he and Allen had persuaded Ed Roberts to start selling Altair Basic, and only then did he quit and go to Albuquerque where they founded Micro-Soft. So at that point Micro-Soft would be cash positive - I don't know to what extend, but Altairs were selling like crazy so it's very likely they were making a reasonable income. In Albuquerque they lived, and worked, in the Sundowner Motel opposite MITS' office (so he clearly was living on little money). Triumph of the Nerds suggests, but doesn't say for sure, that they grew purely from generated revenue (it does say that Apple did, a few years later, with a very similar growth curve). So, beyond paying for him to be at Harvard, there's not much indication that his parents gave much help. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 20:44, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Doesn't fully answer the question, but this Cracked article may be of interest to you. Vimescarrot (talk) 05:51, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Find board of directors of california corporations

Where can one find the members of the board of directors or officers for a california corporation? —Preceding unsigned comment added by VedanaCo (talk • contribs) 18:57, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Start with the company website, then the California Secretary of State, then the SEC website. [7] ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 19:20, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Bach cantatas

Which J.S. Bach cantatas were written in the key of C major?96.232.11.68 (talk) 20:21, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

The Bach article has a lot of links and references that may be of help in tracking this info down. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:22, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

This [[8]] seems to be pretty comprehensive for Bach cantatas in any key. Zoonoses (talk) 00:29, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

What's the point of learning Irish?

This is an honest question and I don't want to offend anyone, I just would like to understand something. Why does the Irish government want to create a bilingual Ireland (Irish/English) and not just use the language they're currently native speakers of, that is, English? I see no practical reason for doing so, only maybe "national pride" or something. So, why do you think that is? --Belchman (talk) 22:39, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

"'National pride' or something" was spot on. The Reference Desk is not a substitute for an opinion forum, however.--Wetman (talk) 22:49, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Why would anyone want their home country's ancient language to die out? That is like everyone in China switching to English as the national language. There is actually a very good short film called "My Name is Yu Ming" about a young Chinese man who learns Gaelic and later travels to Ireland to learn no one speaks it. It is basically a call for people to learn the language so it won't die out. See here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qA0a62wmd1A&NR=1. - Ghostexorcist (talk) 23:22, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

(ec) "Why would anyone want their home country's ancient language to die out?" If my home country had an obscure and isolate language which is clearly worse than English I would support switching to English completely. Of course, not using it in everyday and formal communication doesn't mean that we will completely forget the language, as we haven't completely forgotten Latin, for example. --Belchman (talk) 23:47, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I recommend Mark Abley (2003). Spoken Here: Travels among theatened languages., which discusses the various reasons why languages die and why some people work to sustain or revive them. --ColinFine (talk) 23:25, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

No one speaks it? See Gaeltacht. Woogee (talk) 23:27, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Agree with Wetman that our opinions are not appropriate, but I hazard a guess that the records of debates and reports of the Houses of the Oireachtas will somewhere show justifications given for public expenditure necessary to foster the Irish langauge. So there are factual paths still open to us. Education in the Republic of Ireland notes that "a student attending a school which receives public money must be taught the language". Ah/ Here you go. An Irish Government Statement on the Irish Language 2006 sets out their fairly contemporary thoughts on the matter: "The Government believes that the Irish language is of particular importance for the people, society and culture of Ireland. As a spoken community language, Irish is unique to this country and is, therefore, of crucial importance to the identity of the Irish people and to world heritage." and goes on to set out a 20 year strategy for the language, or, if you prefer, "Cuirfear straitéis fiche bliain don Ghaeilge le chéile bunaithe ar na cuspóirí atá leagtha amach sa cháipéis seo."

The government statement asserts that "according to surveys and opinion polls, most of the population believes that Irish is of particular importance for themselves personally and/or for the country as a whole." Perhaps it is then an expression of the will of the people?

Meanwhile, here's what the Irish green Party has to say in justification for policy relating to the Irish language. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:49, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I'd say that one reason we want to keep a language alive is the same reason we like to have fine art. A more practical reason is that it keeps access to existing historical records and literary works easier. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 23:39, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

In a related vein, the same question in regard to Scottish Gaelic, was the subject of this episode of David Mitchell's soapbox. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 23:41, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

People take pride in their language. It's part of their shared heritage and entity. It connects them to their sense of their deep past; it is a rich cultural product. --Mr.98 (talk) 00:52, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

James Joyce around 100 years ago had something to say about this subject. His opinions are explained more concisely in Dubliners and A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man than in the later books Ulysses and Finnegan's Wake. Hemingway claimed Joyce spoke Italian in Paris (and both his and Nora's children had Italian names). Then there's Samuel Beckett who wrote his plays in French, translating them into English himself. If Beckett spoke in Irish it was only to curse. (Not to say there's anything wrong with a good cursing vocabulary -- bot unfortunately, English is woefully bereft of good curse words). Zoonoses (talk) 01:15, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Euphonics, perhaps. The French would never give up their language, I'm sure, due to its 'ear feel'. Irish may have similar euphonic features . Vranak (talk) 03:52, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

The deal with language is that language is more than simply code for ideas. Language is part of the culture in which it develops, and when a language is lost, there are parts of the culture that are lost with it. For one thing, there are concepts in each language that cannot be properly expressed outside that language. The linguistic and cultural context is lost. Consider a language like German for example. A German word like "Volk" lacks a single, easy to translate word in a language like English. We say it means "folk" or "people" or "nation" or whatnot, but its a cumbersome thing to express outside of German. There's something in the German character and culture that gives the word its definition; all Germans know exactly what it means, but its hard to translate properly outside of German. Schadenfreude is another example; no single English word or phrase properly captures its meaning. The bullshit story about Eskimos having 100 words for snow is bullshit, but it has a nugget of truth in the idea that the language of a people is intimately tied into the culture of a people; and it is impossible to fully preserve a culture if the language is lost. Its part of why the French are so fiercely protective of their language; theres value for French people in French culture, and French language is part of that. So when a language like Irish Gaelic dies out, it takes aspects of Irish culture with it. Irish culture becomes less "Irish" when it loses its language. --Jayron32 04:46, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Remember that the decision to support and promote Irish was made (officially) over 80 years ago, and unofficially in some of the various Irish independence movement even earlier than that...people's worldviews and political debates tended to be grounded in different sets of assumptions and values to some extent then--similarly, I would think the question of "what justifies the public expense of promoting Irish?" would be seen as a question whose answer is self-evident, among most of those in the leadership of the independence movements and subsequent early independent governments of Ireland--达伟 (talk) 07:38, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Am fear a chailleas a chanain caillidh e a shaoghal (Scottish Gaelic). "He who loses his language loses his world." A useful paper here[9] on the revival of Manx Gaelic. Alansplodge (talk) 08:23, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

On this, see Sapir-Whorf hypothesis.--152.3.129.3 (talk) 15:33, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

One phrase to search for is language revival. That will lead you to websites, including blogs, that will give you opinions we are not supposed to indulge in here. For example, The Revival of Gaelic. Given your understandable cynicism, you may like this report: Modern Irish: A Case Study in Language Revival Failure. An Irish travel writer named Manchán Magan tried to go around his own country speaking Gaelic, for a programme called No Béarla, and so has an unusual perspective on the situation of his language. BrainyBabe (talk) 09:26, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

It shouldn't be tought, it's stupid that it is, it takes valuable study time from actual important subjects.--92.251.164.176 (talk) 21:31, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Thank you all for your answers. It looks like I'll have to read more about the subject. --Belchman (talk) 15:36, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

There's a quite interesting similarity between the Gaelic education in Ireland and Swedish education in Finland. Swedish is spoken by 5% of the population in Finland, its not a particularily useful language outside Scandinavia but remains a mandatory subject for all school children. In short, the Swedish People's Party in the Finnish parliament is willing to support any government who retains Swedish education, and somehow Swedish continues begin taught in spite of being detested by major sections of pupils who merely see it as a waste of time. (A difference though, is that promoting Gaelic in Ireland is a form of national revival against the colonial legacy which sought to destroy Irish culture altogether, whilst Swedish in Finland is the language of the former colonialist power). --Soman (talk) 20:46, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

April 1

Question or Query

This question is from an IP who is suspected of being a recurring troll

Dear Wikipedia, Me and my friend got in a fight about religion. My teacher told me to write an essay about it, so I need some answers from you guys. Should I sue him for punching me? What is the best cure for a black eye? Do you think we will be friends again in the future? What is the one true religion? Thanks for your help. Feel free to debate the answers and then get back to me. My number is (redacted). Your friend, A. Foole. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.31.51.204 (talk) 01:09, 1 April 2010 (UTC) It's not our place to tell you It's also not our place to tell you (but I would recommend an ice pack) We don't know you or your friend, so that is something for you guys to decide That's like asking what is the greatest rock band ever or who is the most beautiful actress ever. It's purely subjective. 24.189.90.68 (talk) 01:14, 1 April 2010 (UTC) Wait, "A.Foole"? Is this guy/girl a troll? 24.189.90.68 (talk) 01:17, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Our first April Fool's Day post. StuRat (talk) 01:52, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

It's pretty good, though, and harmless - a non-subtle summary of the types of questions we're not supposed to answer. It could maybe serve as an example. I could think of additional items, like "What's the answer to the following question my teacher asked today? [Quantity of bricks in the Great Wall of China.] I need to know by tomorrow, so hustle it!" ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:10, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

How many molecules are in Leonard Nimoy's butt? Adam Bishop (talk) 04:31, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

About tree fiddy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.126.66.128 (talk) 07:41, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

"What's the question if the answer is 'no'?" --Jubilee♫clipman 12:04, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

The question is, "What does N-O spell?" ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:12, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Will there ever be a boy born, who can swim faster than a shark?

Will there ever be a boy born, who can swim faster than a shark? --92.244.158.105 (talk) 03:32, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

This question is a quote from The Office. Do you really want an answer? --Cam (talk) 03:47, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

It seems rather dubious, for the simple reason that men are adapted for pedestrian locomotion, while sharks are at home in the sea. Vranak (talk) 03:49, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

It would be crystal balling to say "never", but I could ask a similar question: Will there ever be a shark born that could outrun a normal human being on dry land? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:07, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

If the shark were at the point of death and the boy were Michael Phelps, yes to the original question. Wrad (talk) 04:48, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Hence my qualification about a "normal" human being. Not that Stephen Hawking isn't "normal" necessarily, but if his wheelchair's batteries failed, a shark on land could probably catch him - just as a disabled shark might well be outswum. So we're presuming physically fit participants. "Now, for my next impression... Jesse Owens!" ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:17, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

According to this site:

Sharks typically swim with the even, liquid grace of a creature completely at home with its place in the Universe. Large sharks generally cruise at a leisurely 1.5 miles (2.4 kilometres) per hour. Because most species fare poorly in captivity, the maximum swimming speed of a shark has seldom been measured. The Blue Shark (Prionace glauca) is an open ocean glider, planing on wing-like pectoral fins and flattened belly. There exists a dubious record of a small Blue Shark about 2 feet (0.6 metres) in length which was found to swim steadily against a current at 17.7 miles (28.5 kilometres) per hour and was reported to achieve 43 miles (69 kilometres) per hour in short bursts. The most reliable record of a Blue Shark at speed is 24.5 miles (39.4 kilometres) per hour for a 6.5-foot- (2-metre-) long individual.

And according to this site:

Top swimming athletes are said to average 5.25 mph. But in the case of Phelps, let’s round up to 6 mph.

So that means that depending on the shark, there are some swimmers who can outpace them at cruising speed. However it seems that in most case swimmers would have to quadruple their current top speeds which seems unlikely without either serious physical, genetic, or robotic assistance. And even then it is still likely that the sharks will be able to consistently outpace them both sprints and across long distances (unlike, say, horses, which have a more spotty record). --Mr.98 (talk) 11:58, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

It all depends on the shark; Phelps could likely swim faster than a shark that has been severely injured and is near death. Nyttend (talk) 02:25, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Probably,if it's one of the Pathetic Sharks..hotclaws 20:36, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Bellic reasons

[10]

Why did the maharashti navy sink these ships if they were not in bellum?174.3.113.245 (talk) 04:03, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Finding the names of my grandfather's parents

Hi, I was wondering where you guys think I should look to find out the names of my great grandparents (the parents of my father's father). My grandfather was in WWII, and I found his listing in the Social Security Death Index, but what shows children or parents that is in the public record? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.126.66.128 (talk) 07:40, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Depends where you are, and where your great grandparents were from. If you know the name of your father's father, and he was born in the UK, you can search online on FreeBMD [www.freebmd.co.uk] and find his birth record. This gives you the reference you need to order his birth certificate from the GRO (General Register Office) [11]. This will have the names of his mother and father. Sorry I can't help with anywhere else - maybe someone else will be along shortly who can. --TammyMoet (talk) 11:49, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

The original poster's IP address geolocates to Illinois. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 13:32, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

This website could probably help you, as I have used it for the same kind of thing with success. After searching the name, if there are results in the WorldConnect database (which stores a large number of geneological data points), the entries contain birth/death dates and locations, names of parents, and spouse names. Then you can filter by more specific criteria, or further search for the parents' names, and see their information, and so on. There are additional resources at the external links of our Geneology article. —Akrabbim^talk 18:09, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

[12] This is another good site and is completely free. Wrad (talk) 19:18, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

OK, I found out the names of my great grandparents. Is there a way to find out someone's maiden name? The problem is she was born in the austro-hungarian empire, she might have gotten married there too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.126.66.128 (talk) 22:50, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

About my grandmother

She could be, if you are an aphid.

Is my grandmother a virgin? I asked but she refuses to answer. 122.107.207.98 (talk) 09:20, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

She probably considered the source. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:15, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Is this another case of a troll having fun on April Fool's day? 24.189.90.68 (talk) 10:49, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Ya think? :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:10, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

This may be asked for laughs, but depending on the circumstances, a grandmother could indeed still be a virgin. For example, if all her children (including your parent) were adopted, there is a possibility that she could have remained a virgin. Or if your parent came from your grandfather's first marriage (so she is technically your step-grandmother). Depending on your/her definitions of "sex" and "virgin", there are other ways too. e.g. artificial insemination. There's a question later down on this page WP:RD/M#Pregnancy_without_sex which is related. During sex education courses I was told that it is indeed technically possible for a woman to get pregnant during non-penetrative sex, as long as there is an unblocked route to the fallopian tubes. -- 174.31.194.126 (talk) 16:35, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Who was the first US president to refer to the USA as a democracy?

Who was the first US president to refer to the USA as a democracy? --Gary123 (talk) 11:06, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I would think Washington. Do you have reason to suspect otherwise? --Cybercobra (talk) 11:40, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I think that the rhetorical use of the phrase is probably very old. I doubt anyone has ever seriously argued that the U.S. government is a direct democracy. However, it's perfectly reasonable to categorize the U.S. as a representative democracy, and in that sense it is a "democracy". Blurring the distinction between direct and representative democracy is a standard sort of technique in rhetoric, that can be used to make arguments more persuasive. — Carl (CBM · talk) 11:46, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Weren't there leaders before Washington that were elected as "President of the Council" or something? I am British, BTW and they don't teach us this stuff: I just saw it on telly sometime back :) --Jubilee♫clipman 11:57, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I do not know who (if anyone) was in charge before Washington, but they would not have been a President, so they could not impact this particular question. Googlemeister (talk) 13:16, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, the Articles of Confederation (1777-1787) had the office of the President of the United States in Congress Assembled, of which there were 10, plus some Presidents of the Continental Congress during the early revolution. There's not much common between those and the present office, though, save the use of the term "President". The early office was legislative rather than executive, but even then doesn't approach something like a Prime Minister. Rather, the President of the Congress was a role more akin to a Speaker of the House (in both the present US and British systems). — Lomn 13:20, 1 April 2010 (UTC

But the articles of Confederation are not the US Constitution, which is the document that creates the office of POTUS. President of Congress would be an entirely different office and trying to include something like that is simply arguing semantics. If you can show a reference where the POTCC describing the US as a democracy I will concede the point. Googlemeister (talk) 15:25, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Any question that refers to President of the US necessarily must be from Washington onward. As noted by Lomn, the guys preceding Washington were not chief executives. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:13, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Agreed generally, but the question is looking for (generally) early attestations that the US is a democracy. That's not a Presidential function, and as such, a restriction to Chief Executives may be unnecessarily narrow -- any of the Founding Fathers (several of whom were POTCCs) might well be just as persuasive. As such, I largely object to the statement that "they could not impact this particular question". — Lomn 17:43, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

That would be interesting information, it's just not what the OP asked. He asked who was the first American president to call us a democracy. And the point being that Washington was the first American president as the term is understood in the US. It would certainly be interesting if one or more of the "presidents" under the Articles of Confederation used the term, but it wouldn't count as "Who was the first president to use..." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:35, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Well lately there has been a controversy that the USA is a republic not a democracy and how none of the founders favored democracy. So I wanted to know when the USA began to be officially described as a democracy. --Gary123 (talk) 15:18, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

There's no controversy. I always used to hear us referred to as a "representative democracy". Obviously, you can't have a true democracy on a large scale, with the public voting on everything. It would be nuts. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:28, 1 April 2010 (UTC

It's not obvious to me that it wouldn't work. Since the average voter wouldn't vote for large number of laws so complex they can't understand them, I'd expect that we would end up with simpler laws which would rarely change, which would be a good thing. The closest thing the US has to direct democracy is binding referendums/propositions in some states, such as California, and those states haven't been destroyed by it yet. StuRat (talk) 16:08, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Don't speak too soon. They turned down all the tax proposals, putting their selfish personal interests ahead of the larger interests of education. Regardless, those are secret ballots. The voting record of Congressmen is public. If the people were allowed to vote on every issue, their voting record would also need to be made public, to ensure some accountability. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:11, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

That doesn't make sense. The reason for public votes by representatives is accountability to the voters, that is, to ensure that they vote the way they promised they would when we elected them. In direct democracy, who would the voters be accountable to, other than themselves ? StuRat (talk) 23:26, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Let's suppose the proposed legislation is to make possession of marijuana punishable by a mandatory life sentence. Such a law would never be proposed in Congress except maybe by someone who doesn't want to get re-elected next time. But if the vote were anonymous, it might get a lot more support. If you switch to a "pure democracy", the voters are accountable to the public just as Congress is - i.e. accountable to each other. If you're going to have pure democracy, you have to know where everyone stands, otherwise you'll quickly end up with anonymous majority tyranny. Which, by the way, is the reason pure democracy wouldn't work on a large scale. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:32, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

If the member of Congress who proposed that legislation would be voted out of office, that means that the majority of voters in his district are opposed to that (actually a super-majority, since incumbents have inherent advantages in fund-raising and name recognition). So, why then, would they vote for the same unpopular law under direct democracy ? And, since, in direct democracy, you can't be voted out of office, what's the point in knowing how everyone else voted ? I don't see any reason to think that absurdly strict drug enforcement would be more common in direct democracy. After all, under representative democracy, possession of drugs can be punishable by life in prison, and even the death penalty, in some countries. Then there was Prohibition, in the US, providing enough money for criminals to build Mafia empires. It's hard to see how direct democracy could do any worse than that. StuRat (talk) 14:51, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

As admirably noted by CBM above, the US government under the present constitution has always been reasonably described as a representative democracy, which can be alternately phrased as a republican democracy. Suggesting that a state may be only one or the other is a false dichotomy and a bad rhetorical tactic, not a "controversy". As for the founders, US representatives have always been directly democratically elected, though it's true that the original methods of electing senators and the President reflect a wariness of direct democracy. That's not the same as claiming that all the founders opposed direct democracy -- rather they collectively compromised on a system that isn't entirely directly democratic (and living in a state that emphasizes too many stupid referendums, I agree with them). — Lomn 15:42, 1 April 2010 (UTC

The Senators represented the states, not the individual citizens as such, so it was appropriate for the state legislatures to elect them. Of course, that's really just filtering the process through an extra layer or two, as the people elected the state legislators. And the point of the electoral college is, again, that the states elect the President. Both of those situations are a result of the Great Compromise, without which the Constitution would not have been approved. The principle was then as it is now - to give the smaller states some leverage against the larger ones. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:49, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

The closest find on wikiquote is 'Democratical States must always feel before they can see: it is this that makes their Governments slow, but the people will be right at last. George Washington

Letter to Marquis de Lafayette (25 July 1785) Rmhermen (talk) 16:38, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

That quote is four years before he became President (great find, though!). Wrad (talk) 19:14, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

This is a pretty interesting question. Most of the Founding Fathers of the US did not think that they were founding a democracy. (Men like John Adams would have been horrified at the idea.) To them, the word "democracy" had the negative connotations of "mob rule". (It's been said that Thomas Paine was the only Founder who was an advocate of democracy as we now define the term.) They were creating a republic, which had important democratic aspects but was not simply a democracy. But they unleashed forces that eventually produced a white male democracy by the age of Jackson. The work of historian Gordon S. Wood often refers to this process.

One would think that Andrew Jackson would have been the first to refer unambiguously to the US as a democracy, although the word had a peculiar usage in his time. His followers in fact usually called themselves "the Democracy" (not "the Democratic party") to rhetorically distinguish themselves from who they viewed as "the aristocracy"—the old New England elites like JQ Adams. After Jackson and creation of the popular party system by Van Buren, it probably became politically routine, even necessary, for presidents to call the US a democracy. I don't have references to support this impression, but I'd start my research with Jackson and Tocqueville. —Kevin Myers 20:13, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Not surprisingly, the Federalist Papers are available for download at Project Gutenberg. The only papers to use the word "democracy" or "democratic" are #10, #14, #43, #48, and #58, all by James Madison, and #63, which was either by Madison or Alexander Hamilton. And in most of the places where the term is used, it is indeed contrasted with "republic" or "republican" -- the latter term is used specifically to mean what we now call a representative democracy. For example, the first mention is in #10, where Madison writes:

From this view of the subject it may be concluded that a pure democracy, by which I mean a society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the government in person, can admit of no cure for the mischiefs of faction. A common passion or interest will, in almost every case, be felt by a majority of the whole; a communication and concert result from the form of government itself; and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party or an obnoxious individual. Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.

And a bit later:

A republic, by which I mean a government in which the scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect, and promises the cure for which we are seeking. Let us examine the points in which it varies from pure democracy, and we shall comprehend both the nature of the cure and the efficacy which it must derive from the Union. The two great points of difference between a democracy and a republic are: first, the delegation of the government, in the latter, to a small number of citizens elected by the rest; secondly, the greater number of citizens, and greater sphere of country, over which the latter may be extended.

(There are also a couple of places in the papers where Madison uses the term "democratic" in a less absolute sense, describing a government as more democratic or less democratic.)

Of course, what all this shows is not that countries like the US are "republics and not democracies", but that the meaning of both words has changed since the 18th century. Today both terms apply to the US, while dictatorships like North Korea may be called republics, simply because they are not monarchies. And, as Kevin said, this means that the original question is indeed interesting.

Transcriptions of the inaugural addresses of all the presidents are available at the bartleby text archive, so it's easy to determine that the first present to refer to the US as a democracy in his inaugural address was John Quincy Adams in 1825. Specifically, he called it a "confederated representative democracy". But this is not to say that some or all of the five previous presidents might not have used the word with the same meaning as well, at other times. --Anonymous, 05:24 UTC, April 2, 2010.

Racial comment

Moved from Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)

The Hardball TV show on July 17, 2009 had a well known political analyst as a guest who commented that,"This is White mans Country,our fathers fought for it and we do not intend for anyone to take it away from us." I was dumbfounded viewing this but the TV host said absolutely nothing about this inciteful remark. Question:

Do you think an apology is in order to the nation?

A concerned voter —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.103.228.22 (talk) 10:59, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

This isn't place to ask that (petition the channel or go to the newspapers) but, FWIW, yes --Jubilee♫clipman 11:02, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the guy's parents owe him an apology, for having raised him to be an idiot. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:08, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

The thing about spouting some patently absurd piece of idiocy in a public forum is that people will rush to correct your errant thinking. It's an inadvertent cry for help. Vranak (talk) 13:57, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!

"Do you think an apology is in order to the nation?" - Does it really matter what a bunch of strangers on the intertubes think? Do YOU want an apology? If so, go get one. Don't ask an encyclopedia. --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 19:43, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to assume the TV show is Hardball with Chris Matthews and the country is the USA. In which case the guy is a complete fruit loop. The group with the greatest right to live there are the Native Americans, not "White man". If he's willing to accept the Native Americans being supplanted by "White man" then he has to accept that "White man" in turn could be supplanted by other ethnic/racial groups. Exxolon (talk) 16:31, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Are we referring to [13] (look at ~8:00)? If so, the show wasn't Hardball but The Rachel Maddow Show (TV series) and the host fiercely challenged most of what he said. It's true she didn't challenge that specific comment but it was part of a wider comment and the issue being discussed was affirmative action, Sotomayor and Buchanan's suggestion that Republicans should have more vigirously contested her nomination in particularly arguing that she was only there because of affirmative action and they (the Republicans) should have made the point that it would be white people particularly white males who suffer. Nil Einne (talk) 14:20, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Sitting US Presidents as field commanders

Our article on George Washington notes with regard to the Whiskey Rebellion that Washington was one of two sitting US Presidents to command the military in the field. Who was the other (and under what circumstances)? — Lomn 14:00, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

The Whiskey Rebellion article says: "President James Madison was present at the Battle of Bladensburg during the War of 1812 and may have commanded some troops." --Mr.98 (talk) 15:09, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! I'd perused Madison's article but didn't think to check the Whiskey Rebellion for details. — Lomn 15:23, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I suspect that both claims are bogus. Neither are cited to reliable sources. Washington would have commanded troops in the field during the Whiskey Rebellion had it been necessary, but resistance collapsed before the army marched west. He simply reviewed the troops and went back to the capitol. The idea of Madison directing troops in combat seems pretty far fetched. —Kevin Myers 20:20, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Not far-fetched at all. Madison was on the field with a brace of pistols and Secretary of State Monroe was personally conducting his own reconnaisance and contermanded orders from the commanding general to the militia. Commodore Joshua Barney appears to say that he changed positions after getting a visit from the president and the cabinet [14], probably during the 'short turn' to the marine barracks that the President mentions [15]. Rmhermen (talk) 20:58, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm well aware of Madison (and Monroe's) actions on those days (years ago, I think I was the first Wikipedian to write about Monroe's role in the battle), but it may be a stretch to claim that Madison "personally command[ed] the military in the field" on that occasion, as our George Washington article claims. Madison did, as Garry Wills's biography notes, make an effective choice in sending Barney to Bladensburg. Perhaps this does qualify as commanding troops in action. Certainly Madison was in a much more serious military situation than Washington was in the Whiskey Rebellion. I think it's possible that someone has overstated Madison's case by, perhaps, confusing his actions with that of Monroe, who did reposition troops, albeit incompetently.

No matter how we interpret these events, our real challenge is to find reliable citations for the claim these were the "only two times that a sitting President would personally command the military in the field." —Kevin Myers 21:33, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Abraham Lincoln came under fire at the Battle of Fort Stevens. See http://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=901. Woogee (talk) 23:36, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Is there a difference between didactics and pedagogy?

I noticed a college offering teacher training courses in didactics? Is there something specific that I should understand by that, or is it simply the study of teaching? --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 14:15, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

• Didactics - a teaching method that follows a consistent scientific approach or educational style to engage the student’s mind
• Pedagogy - the study of being a teacher

Read into this what you may. Vranak (talk) 16:33, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. If that unreferenced Wikipedia article is right, I guess the students should expect a scientific approach to teaching from those modules. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 19:27, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

'Unreferenced' as a pejorative really is a sticking point with me. I mean, I understand the desire for corroboration, but the mere fact that a Wikipedia article has been around for many years suggests that it's fairly sound. This does not apply to obscure topics that get few people looking at them, of course. Vranak (talk) 21:05, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Pedagogy is the discipline of study of teaching itself. Didactics is a specific kind of pedagogy; that is a specific method of teaching. The relationship between didactics and pedagogy is like the relationship between "biology" and "science" or between "18th century American Lit" and "English". --Jayron32 20:48, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Jayron, please expand. Which specific method of pedagogy? Further reading? --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 19:32, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Why is music from the Baroque period so good?

Whenever I hear a particularly engaging piece off the CBC Classical station and look up the composer, it invariably comes back as being a man from the so-called Baroque period. Can anyone offer some insight into the social and intellectual climate of that period, as to figure out why such poignant and lively music was the mainstay of regents' courts in that day? Vranak (talk) 17:55, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

This is really a matter of taste. I happen to share your taste, but not everyone does. Baroque music originated in Italy, largely under the patronage of the Catholic Church, in the context of the Counter-Reformation, an effort to enhance the appeal of the Catholic Church, aesthetically and otherwise, to counter the threat posed by Protestantism. Baroque music operated on a more emotional plane and had more ornamentation than earlier, more ascetic forms of music. It benefited from the wealth of the Church, swollen by Spain's collection of treasure from the New World, and from the wealth of Italy's merchant aristocracy, particularly that of Venice. Baroque music developed further at the time when nation-states were asserting their power over the regional nobility in Europe. This was the era of absolutism. France's Louis XIV and his court at Versailles became a model for other European courts. Louis centralized tax collection and required the French nobility to attend court at Versailles rather than threaten his power from their regional fiefs. Other monarchs followed suit. This concentration of money and people of status in royal courts led to a new sophistication and to higher status and income for court musicians. Freed from the need to govern feudal demi-states, the aristocracy may have had more time and inclination to cultivate aesthetic tastes that could enhance their status in the court milieu. With a more stable income and larger ensembles of musicians, composers may have been able to undertake more ambitious compositions. This process happened somewhat in parallel with the intellectual flowering we know as the Age of Enlightenment, which overlapped the second half of the baroque period of music. Marco polo (talk) 18:16, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

applause Brilliant answer, thank you. Vranak (talk) 18:29, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

This is a good read [16] and see also this page[17] which tells the story of the rediscovery of Vivaldi who was almost forgotten until the Festival of Britain in 1951. Alansplodge (talk) 19:10, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

All the Baroque arts were designed to please, not shock, traumatize and enlighten. Baroque music exudes clear Major-Minor tonality, remaining clearly within its key signature, and is expressed in clear forms that are instinctively recognizable: when the theme returns, you recognize it: ha! And baroque instrumentation is clean: that's the oboe!. After a few mouthfuls of Bartok or Mahler, Baroque music clears the palate.--Wetman (talk) 20:57, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Excellent, excellent answer – cheers! Vranak (talk) 20:59, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

But the above answers don't explain the difference between the baroque and classical periods. If of any interest, David Cope has written computer programs that compose relatively convincing-surrounding Baroque-like music. There are midi files on his site for hundreds of these "compositions" (artificial Bach cantatas). I've listened to a few and IMO they sound nice, like someone doing a good job improvising in that style, but they don't really sound "composed". Also, some actual baroque music sounds quite violent, e.g. some works of Couperin and of Monteverdi (if the latter counts as baroque) 66.127.52.47 (talk) 22:30, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

There were some other principles that contribute here. One aspect of the Baroque era, particularly within the arts, is the use of principles and rules. There were rules for all aspects of composition - if this, then that, so much so that one can start with a simple principle and extrapolate much of the rest of the piece. These principles led to the ability two write and improvise pretty music. But, one further principle is also important. A piece that followed all the rules would be considered uninspired and dull. An educated musician knew the rules, so they would recognise something like that and find it wanting. Instead, the beauty of a piece would be in its moments of breaking the rules. So a great Baroque piece would be one that follows the rules for the most part, but has occasional surprising moments where there are unexpected slight disharmony. Obviously it could be taken to the extreme (resulting, perhaps, in Modernism), but some simple rules broken within an otherwise well-composed piece keeps it interesting. Steewi (talk) 02:49, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

The idea that the beauty of a piece would be in its moments of breaking the rules is a Romantic idea not a Baroque one: the Wikipedia article on decorum could use some help, but it's well started...--Wetman (talk) 04:18, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Da Pope

Would the Pope have diplomatic immunity, same as leaders of other countries? Googlemeister (talk) 20:38, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

The Pope is considered a head of state when travelling outside the Vatican, and as such benefits from diplomatic immunity. --207.236.147.118 (talk) 20:43, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Communism

My friend and I are having a debate and need something settled: is North Korea communist or not? Furthermore, are there any communist countries left in the world? TIA, Ζρς ιβ' ^¡hábleme! 21:10, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Communism in Korea says they're socialist. The leading part in China is the Communist Party of China...but just because they call themselves that, doesn't mean they are; I don't know. I'll do more searchery. Vimescarrot (talk) 21:29, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Aha, Politics of the People's Republic of China says it's a "single-party socialist republic". I am assuming here that "socialist" means they can't be communist - I could be wrong - I know nothing about politics. Vimescarrot (talk) 21:31, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Socialism is a very broad term, it basically means that the government partakes in social intervention. Countries with stuff like universal health care are often called socialist, even though they're basically completely capitalist, while the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was the first and most well-known communist country in the world. Heck every country in the world could be possibly considered socialist due to unemployment payments etc. In the case of North Korea I think socialist means communist.--92.251.164.176 (talk) 21:36, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

(e/c) This depends a bit on your definition of communism. North Korea has a somewhat peculiar form of socialist single-party rule: many of the institutions are socialist (in the old Soviet sense of the word), but the leadership is dynastic (handed down through a family line) rather than appointed (chosen from within the party), and there are certain elements (such as Juche) that derive more from Korean social/political history than mainstream socialist doctrine. It is certainly not communist, however, by any reasonable definition.

Cuba is probably the closest you will find to a communist nation in the modern world (there are NGO organizations and groups that run on more sincere communist principles, but nothing large). China is probably next, though communism in china is regional (rural regions are much more strongly organized around communist principles, urban regions have been developing strong capitalistic trends, and the government itself still carries imperial-bureaucratic tendencies). after that, you have a few nations that are more or less socialist republics (single-party republics or junta-type systems that organize the nation on socialist economic principles.

On the other hand, you could look at Sweden, which (despite being considered an industrialized democracy) has very, very strong socialist conventions built into the system. --Ludwigs2 21:40, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Cuba, Laos, China, Vietnam, North Korea. (PS See Category:Communist_states.) BrainyBabe (talk) 22:37, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

North Korea is called a communist country by the Western world. Technically, The Communist Manifesto said that the USSR, Mao's People's Republic of China, and North Korea would all be called socialist states, because they had not ascended to true communism yet. All those communist countries adhered to the practice of calling themselves "socialist" countries, and aspired to one day be real communist states. (This has led to a lot of confusion, because lots of Western European democratic states consider themselves "socialist" as well; the word "socialist" obviously has a lot of meanings.) So, if you and your friend are using the definition of "communist" as defined by Marx and Engels, then no, North Korea isn't communist, and there are 0 communist states currently; but if you use the word "communist" as is commonly used by ~99% of people in the non-communist countries, then yes, it's a communist country. Comet Tuttle (talk) 23:48, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I hope you have some kind of world survey to back up your claim that almost everyone in the entire world uses the word in this way. Algebraist 00:27, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

To clarify what Algebraist means: The number 99% is grossly inaccurate, even if the scope was reduced from non-communist countries to just the US with their comparably right-shifted political spectrum. /Coffeeshivers (talk) 09:14, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

B. R. Myers, who knows a thing or two about North Korea, makes an interesting argument here.--Rallette (talk) 06:05, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

---

North Korea has certainly been diplomatically aligned with Communist states during its history (and China is still its main semi-remaining "ally"), but internally Juche has been replacing Marxism-Leninism as the main official ideology for a long time, and now "Song-un" or "Military first" is supplementing (possibly eventually supplanting) Juche. It's been reported that most recently-adopted version of the North Korean constitution makes no mention of Communism... AnonMoos (talk) 22:30, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Did Wikipedia pull an April Fools?

Today's featured article (April 1) was "wife selling" I'm reasonably well educated and I had never heard of it and the article sounds a little weird to me. Is this an April Fools? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.164.145.88 (talk) 23:02, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Wife selling presumably has references that could be checked. The April 1 articles are about obscure facts that are all true (or so it's claimed), the appearance of being a hoax is the actual hoax. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:07, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

For what it's worth, the article has a ton of references and was begun in October of 2006. One perhaps unintentionally amusing fact is the last recorded such sale being in 1913 for one British pound. If you're dropping the price that low, you might as well just give her away. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:11, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

That's about £85 in today's money. Enough to pay for the celebratory drinks after you get rid of your wife! ;) --Tango (talk) 23:54, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I suspect the practice came to an end with women's liberation, specifically with the discovery that a good portion of the wives would not only be willing to sell their husbands, but would even pay someone to take them. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:03, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Although that probably cuts both ways. Maybe that's where Henny Youngman got his famous catchphrase, "Take my wife... Please!" ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:05, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

This happens every April Fools Day. The main page gets changed to something that looks like a complete fabrication but is actually not. Dismas|^(talk) 23:10, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

The sale of a wife is a significant plot event in Thomas Hardy's well-known novel The Mayor of Casterbridge. It seems not unlikely (though I haven't a reference) that Hardy based this on an actual incident known to him. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 23:50, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

As the article notes, it was a fairly common practice. Sharpe's Waterloo is another literary example. Algebraist 00:26, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Not surprisingly, wife renting was always frowned upon. —Kevin Myers 07:08, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

I can't imagine why. We pay for drivers' and other licences for fixed periods; and house rent; and many other things. Why shouldn't marriage licences also expire at the end of a certain period, to be renewable only by mutual consent and the payment of a nominal fee to cover the paperwork. We'd eliminate the divorce problem in one fell swoop. Of course, it would put a lot of lawyers out of work, and it would sort of change the concept of marriage being for life. But that's changed anyway, what with pre-nuptial agreements. "Rent a spouse" is the way of the future, I say. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 08:50, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

I agree! Could do with one myself. Anyone got the contact details for Dragon's Den? --TammyMoet (talk) 10:48, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Too late, this is prior art. Algebraist 11:00, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

I saw a documentary about an Islamic practice where one could get married for a specified period of time, even as short as a few hours (very handy for prostitution). Is there an article? Clarityfiend (talk) 03:41, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Yesterday I read this discussion, thought a link to the institution of temporary marriage under Islamic law would be a useful addition, looked up what it was called, pressed "edit", and discovered that someone had beaten me to it, albeit with an Easter egg (of the non-chocolate variety). As Algebraist discreetly pointed out, these contracts are called Nikah mut‘ah ("marriage for pleasure"); you can read more context under Islamic marital jurisprudence. BrainyBabe (talk) 08:21, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Not relevant to the OPs question but whatever; I found the use of that article very distasteful. Yeah Wikipedia isn't censored bla bla but surely there was other "funny" articles they could of used instead of that misogynistic shit for April fools. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.54.207 (talk) 07:03, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Many cultural practices and attitudes of diverse cultures in bygone centuries are unacceptable to modern sensibilities. That doesn't mean we have to pretend they never existed, but neither need we get worked up about them so long as they are not revived. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 13:39, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

I think you misunderstand; I'm not getting worked up that the practice existed years ago or that Wikipedia has an article on it. I just found it very distasteful that the article was used as an april fools "joke" which readers of Wikipeida were apparently supposed to find funny. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.54.207 (talk) 14:45, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

As a member of the April Fools team, i feel like i should chime in here. We do not chose articles for the featured article because of "funniness." We chose it first and foremost by "unbelievable-ness." No one was saying that wife selling is a joke. What were were saying is kind of a meta-joke. We were pointing out that wife selling is so unbelievable that some visitors will assume that it is not true, and the joke is on them. Nothing on the main page on April Fools is a lie, nor are we making fun of the subject of the article. We are trying to confuse people into thinking that everything is one giant joke, when in fact, nothing is.--Found5dollar (talk) 15:08, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

P.S. Work has already begun n next years April Fools page! if you want to help, all the information and links can be found here.--Found5dollar (talk) 15:11, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Sometimes, you know, we need to be reminded of how far our society has come from barbaric practices, and how recently such practices were commonplace, in order for us to truly understand how lucky we are to live in 2010. --TammyMoet (talk) 15:20, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

And, I would add, so that we can maintain vigilance against such practices creeping back. As someone once said: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." 87.81.230.195 (talk) 00:48, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

I have to agree with F5d, TM, 87 here. I don't see anything wrong with that article being chosen. The fact that so many people apparently really thought it was false or a hoax is a good sign it was a decent choice, some of them sadly didn't learn I'm sure but hopefully many did. Personally as a wikipedian and with some experience with how we handle April Fool's day I was never at risk of thinking it was a hoax or untrue but I would like to think I would never have been at risk because I full understand that a lot of stuff we find unacceptable nowadays was common in the past and wouldn't have much of a problem accepting that what that article described was true. The fact so many people do have a problem accepting such things are true I would consider unfortunate (87's point and all that). You may argue it would have been better to have featured the article on some other day for that reason and in some ways you have a point however the article probably wouldn't have been a FA in such a case anyway. Nil Einne (talk) 14:30, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

April 2

Virginity-Backed Security

Can a borrower put up their virginity as collateral for a loan, provided that the lender assesses the borrower's virginity to be equal in value to the loan, in the United States? Would such an agreement hold any stature in a United States court? 76.110.192.228 (talk) 02:14, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

That might work if the woman was betrothed to the King of England. Otherwise, to give you a hint of how it might turn out, some young actress once tried to insure her virginity with Lloyd's of London for a million dollars or some such. They denied the application on the grounds that "the risk is too great". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:36, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

(Disclaimer: I'm still feeling in an April Fools mood, so I'm allowed to be a little flippant.) I'm afraid those gels hoping to become affianced to a King of England have missed their chance by quite a long way. The last time there was a spouseless King of England was when Mary II died in 1694, leaving her co-monarch William III to rule alone until his death in 1702. He could have married again, but there was something about Mary that nobody else could match. And five years after his death, the Kingdom of England ceased to be.  :) -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 04:47, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes indeed, there really was Something about Mary -- Brangifer (talk) 05:26, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

You don't say. :) -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 07:59, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

In a word-or rather, an acronym-, LOL.

In a world where both parties assented to this ridiculous deal, would it even be legal under United States law? 76.110.192.228 (talk) 03:39, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Uh, I really don't think so. Generally the Supreme Court finds in favour of common decency. It wouldn't be very Supreme if it didn't. Vranak (talk) 03:59, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Paul Whiteman, early 20th century bandleader, insured his signature mustache. Surely a hymen could be insured. If it could be insured, why couldn't it be collateralized? Edison (talk) 04:07, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

So I guess virgin tampon wearers would be out of luck? 24.189.90.68 (talk) 07:20, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

The phrase moral repugnance springs to mind. Vranak (talk) 04:17, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Is there a statutory or common-law precedent that prohibits pledging one's virginity as collateral? 76.110.192.228 (talk) 04:38, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

I can't see any reason why you couldn't have a contract involving virginity, but it would need to precisely define virginity and define how they are going to determine whether the person is a virgin or not. I'm not sure I understand the contract you are describing though - are you saying the lender would have the right to deflower the virgin should she default on the loan? If so, that would be prostitution (the virginity part is irrelevant) and there are lots of laws about that. It would also be a very foolish agreement on the part of the lender, since there is no way to ensure the virginity will still exist when the loan is defaulted on. You can be fairly sure someone isn't going to knock down their house and then refuse to pay their mortgage. You can't be at all sure someone won't lose their virginity during the term of the loan. --Tango (talk) 14:05, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

I suppose you could always pledge cherry futures as collateral. :-) StuRat (talk) 14:39, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

While not the same thing, in historic cases where a bride price is paid, this may occur under the presumption the prospective bride is a virgin and I presume if it's later found they are not, the marriage or betrothal may be void and the bride price may need to be paid back. If mahr is paid before the wedding night, I presume something similar may have occured if it's later found the bride is not a virgin. Incidentally, I came across [18] which I'm pretty sure is a hoax (one of their other sites [19]) and also not quite the same thing. I also came across [20] which I've heard of before and this Italian movie which I haven't. Nil Einne (talk) 14:59, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

There is the dower or "morning gift", which "derives from the Germanic practice of the bridegroom's officially granting the gift on the morning after the wedding night; making such a settlement was evidence that the marriage had been consummated and the bride had proven to be a virgin." BrainyBabe (talk) 15:37, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Destroyed and rewritten manuscript?

Who was the author who labored a long time over writing a book, then lent his only copy to a friend. His friend's maid accidentally burned the manuscript. So the author rewrote the book from scratch, and it became really famous? -- noosphere 03:16, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Hadley Hemingway lost a suitcase with all of Ernest Hemingway's early manuscripts. Could that be what you are thinking of? It is not that uncommon for some manuscript to be lost and rewritten. (Happens all the time to me while editing Wikipedia). Edison (talk) 04:00, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Nope. Wasn't him. Sorry. -- noosphere 04:10, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

John Stewart Mill’s housemaid accidentally burned the only manuscript of Thomas Carlyle’s history of the French Revolution.--Wetman (talk) 04:13, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

That's who I was thinking of. Thanks! -- noosphere 04:17, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

T E Lawrence managed to lose his original manuscript twice whilst writing about the war and had to redo all his work for a third time before it was safely published. could that be it? 80.47.135.51 (talk) 10:25, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Apparently not. 80.47.135.51 (talk) 10:27, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

In fiction, Blackadder the Third accidently burns Dr Johnson's manuscript for the first ever dictionary. It was actually published in 1755, seven years before Prince George was born; but hey - it made a good story. Alansplodge (talk) 12:12, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

best health inssurance for preexistent nose trauma/need of reconstruction

hi guys, I'm just wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction, I'm searching for an inssurance that would cover a reconstructive rhinoplasty with a doctor of my choice...for example dr. Dean toriumi. (my current choice). I am aware that health inssurance policies exclude people with preexistent conditions but there must be at least one out there that takes this cases even if it is super expensive, I'd like to take a look at it since it might help.

The Reference desk can't make a recommendation like that.--Wetman (talk) 04:10, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

US health insurance is really weird, so such a policy may exist, but under normal circumstances you can't insure against something certain to happen. Roughly speaking, to calculate an insurance premium you multiply the probability of claiming by the amount of the possible claim and then add a profit margin. If the probability is 1 (ie. certain) then the premium would be more than the cost of just paying for the surgery yourself. --Tango (talk) 14:08, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Except that an insurance company can exert pressure on health care providers to charge a lower fee, while individuals get soaked by health care providers, to subsidize the insurance company's low rates. StuRat (talk) 14:30, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

You should talk with an "insurance broker". They are supposed to be informed about these things. Be aware they are sales people and get commissions when you purchase insurance, and they have no fiduciary duty to guard your best interests. Comet Tuttle (talk) 14:11, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Emigrate to the UK. As long as the procedure isn't purely cosmetic the NHS will perform the procedure for free. However you don't get to choose your surgeon. Alternativey if it's a purely cosmetic procedure various countries have much cheaper plastic surgeons than the USA. Exxolon (talk) 16:25, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Or emigrate to Australia. You will be able to purchase private health insurance that covers you for any pre-existing condition, subject to a waiting period of 12 months. After that, the companies cannot deny benefits just because the condition was pre-existing when you commenced the policy. And you get the doctor of your choice. But if it's a purely cosmetic procedure (and you have to read their definitions of "cosmetic" to be sure), most insurance companies won't cover you at all, ever. You might be able to have it done for free, under Medicare, but like the NHS in the UK, there's no choice of doctor. And Medicare might exclude cosmetic procedures, too. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 20:04, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

When did the majority of the US South convert from Episcopalianism to Baptists?

When did the majority of the US South convert from Episcopalianism to Baptists? --Gary123 (talk) 09:49, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

The colonial South had large populations of Protestant Hugenots, Scot-Irish Presbyterians, Bohemian Moravians, Quakers, etc. Rmhermen (talk) 13:46, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

It depends on what the OP means by "Baptist". According to Southern Baptist Convention, the convention was created in 1845, when it split from the American Baptist Convention (known since that time as "Northen Baptists") though the SBC has a significant presence in the north, and the ABCUSA has a significant presence in the south, especially among African American communities. Martin Luther King, Jr. received his theology doctorate at the Methodist-affiliated Boston University School of Theology, but practiced at an American Baptist-affiliated church in Alabama. Many American protestant churches are not exclusive by denomination, it is not uncommon for people to move between, say, Methodist and Baptist churches. I have known ministers who have moved between Methodist and Baptist churches. The article Baptists in the United States contains a summary of the organization of Baptist churches across america. Nailing down the Baptist denomination is difficult to do because of the way it is organized. As the minister who married me and my wife told us "Remember to tell people you were married in a Baptist church. There is no "The Baptist Church". The Southern Baptist Convention is the largest Baptist group in the south, but they only represent a plurality (not a majority) of baptists in the South, and even less so of the U.S. As to answer the specific question, it would be hard to say. I'm not sure there was a massive conversion of individual churces, as there was in New England when hundreds of former Congregationalist churches converted, en masse, to Unitarianism. Since the Baptist theology stresses Evangalism and individual salvation, it may be more likely that the growth of the Baptist denomination happened slowly and organically, such that it would be hard to nail down when it became the dominant group in the South. They were certainly a strong presence in the Colonies; during the revolution Baptists was strongly and publicly praised by many revolutionary leaders, such as Thomas Jefferson, who wrote the famous Letter to the Danbury Baptists --Jayron32 15:19, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

According to the Encyclopedia of religion in the South, the Anglican (Episcopal) Church had ceased to be the majority denomination by the 1790s. Before the American Revolution, the Anglican Church was the official established church in the south, of course. After guys like Jefferson and Madison helped bring about religious liberty through disestablishment in the 1780s, other denominations, already on the rise, really thrived. Methodists and Baptists led the way, followed by Presbyterians and then Episcopalians. Non-Anglican Christians of the time celebrated Jefferson as their champion, since separation of church and state got the government off their backs and allowed them to grow. —Kevin Myers 16:07, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Maybe not entirely relevant, but a branch of my family emigrated from England to Australia early in the 20th Century, and by some unknown process changed from Anglicans to Baptists. I suppose that they just went to the church that was available. Perhaps the Baptists were keener on getting into remote rural communities. A sort of laid-back lack of enthusiasm is one of Anglicanism's virtues. Alansplodge (talk) 17:04, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Those colonial Virginian Episcopalians were pretty low church to start with: all-day preaching in those plain churches and no smoke and candles.--Wetman (talk) 19:24, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

As others have said, the South has probably never had a Baptist majority (greater than 50%). That said, Baptism as a religious movement probably really gained momentum in the South during the First Great Awakening. Marco polo (talk) 20:12, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Quraysh religion

What religion were the Quraysh before Muhammad was born? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.91.9.119 (talk) 19:33, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

The Meccans had polytheistic/animist beliefs, and, in particular, worshiped Hubal, along with some 360 other gods. See Hubal#Hubal_and_the_Kaaba. StuRat (talk) 19:47, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. What do you mean by worshiping this moon god "in particular"? I know that some tribes had gods for their own tribes while also believing that other tribe's gods existed, so it was polytheistic but every group only had one god. However, the article says that Hubal was a moon god, which makes me think of Greek and Roman religions, where every god had a portfolio. Did the Qurafsh people ignore the god of agriculture or the god of war to focus on the moon god? . Did they think that the moon god was the most powerful of the gods? Or was it just that the moon god's temple was there and other gods' temples were elsewhere? Sorry if my questions are stupid, but I'm confused. --174.91.9.119 (talk) 20:01, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

I get the impression that Hubal was like Zeus or Jupiter (god) in Greek and Roman polytheism. That is, he was the King of the Gods. StuRat (talk) 21:38, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

I know nothing of the Quraysh or Hubal, but frequently in polytheistic religions people and towns have patron gods. The classic example is Athena for Athens. Even among the Athenians, Athena wasn't considered to be the most powerful god, or the leader of the gods, she was simply *their* god. Other city-states had their own patron gods (Artemis for Sparta, Helios for Rhodes, etc.) It's something like nationality itself. Someone from Belize knows that other countries exist, and knows that quite a few of them are more powerful economically/militarily, but they still may be patriotic to Belize, because it's their country. -- 174.31.194.126 (talk) 03:02, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Pre-Islamic Arabia, Ancient Semitic religion, and Arabian mythology may be useful places to start one's studies on this subject. --Jayron32 21:48, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

A previous discussion is here[21]. Alansplodge (talk) 00:11, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Branches of law

Is there an international standard for classifying laws (and therefore lawsuits), possibly with some laws being classified more than once where two or more branches intersect? -- Wavelength (talk) 23:12, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia has Category:Law by issue and List of areas of law and Category:Case law by topic. -- Wavelength (talk) 05:33, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

April 3

If Japan attacked Russia instead of the USA during WWII

Supposing Japan had, instead of attacking Pearl Harbour, laucnhed a full scale attack on the Soviet Union in 1941 to support the German invasion from the west, do you thinkt he outcome of the war might have been different? I know we can never say for sure, and there will always be debate, but I'd like to know some opnions and reasoning. We are insanely lucky they didn't do just that and succeed.--92.251.179.38 (talk) 00:23, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Most of what Japan wanted and had planned to seize was to the south (oil, etc.), not in Siberia. Japan and Germany did not closely coordinate strategic plans, and the whole situation would have had to be rather different for that to happen, probably... AnonMoos (talk) 00:39, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

(ec) The attack on Pearl Harbour wasn't really to support the Germans. While it isn't a coincidence that the attack happened at the same time as the war in Europe was going on, it was a separate conflict. Japan wanted to increase its influence and control in Asia and the US wanted to stop them. The attack on Pearl Harbour was intended to destroy the US Pacific fleet, which was the main way for the US to stop Japan's plans in Asia. Therefore, I can't see why Japan would want to attack the USSR. --Tango (talk) 00:43, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Aside from every other objection, the navy would have had little to do in a Siberian campaign and, given its intense interservice rivalry with the army and fear of the army grabbing all the glory, would surely have fought the idea tooth and claw. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:25, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Going with the premise of the question - any Japanese attack or threat of attack to the USSR would have affected the Battle of Moscow, which the Soviets constantly reinforced with fresh divisions withdrawn from the east. Alansplodge (talk) 02:06, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

There was Soviet–Japanese Neutrality Pact and I find no reason Japan should attack USSR. Oda Mari (talk) 05:42, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

There was also the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact between Germany and the Soviet Union and there was no reason for Germany to attack the Soviet Union. Yet they did. Japan had more reason than the Germans: to aid their allies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.251.142.219 (talk) 12:32, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

From a global perspective (and one of hindsight), there may not have been a significant strategic reason for Germany to attack the USSR (except perhaps to secure the east flanks of Fortress Europe from an ambitious government equally unrestrained by effective democratic institutions), but - despite the two ideologies having much in common - the wave that Hitler'a Nazis rode to power was largely driven by anti-Bolshevik rhetoric. It was incongruous with this rhetoric that a war with a respectable and genetically commiserate race like the British should persist while the vile Jewish-controlled Soviets Slavs shared the fruits of the Polish occupation. NByz (talk) 05:01, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

It should be noted that the Japanese did at least consider attacking Russia, but after an early incursion decided not to bother the USSR. As noted above, this contributed to the Russian victory at Moscow, which given the Russian commander at Khalkhin Gol has a fitting full circular feeling. 91.84.180.57 (talk) 13:23, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Question related to capital punishment in British India

When political prisoners were hanged, what did the British government do with their dead bodies? Would the government allow the relatives to bury/cremate the bodies? Or would the government dispose of the bodies themselves to avoid public anger? Has there been any case in which body of a political prisoner was disposed of by the government themselves?--117.204.84.193 (talk) 02:31, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

In response to your last question, see shooting of the Romanov family. I know it's not British India, but if it can happen in Russia, I don't see why not in British India. Ks0stm ^(T•C•G) 02:41, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Because the British raj was not made up of semi-desperate revolutionaries with few restraints or inhibitions of morality in the middle of a rather unstable overall situation? AnonMoos (talk) 06:32, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

In the UK, executed criminals were generally buried within the precincts of the prison where they were executed. I would be surprised if it was any different in British India. Capital Punishment Amendment Act 1868, Section 6: "The body of every offender executed shall be buried within the walls of the prison within which judgment of death is executed on him: Provided, that if one of Her Majesty’s Principal Secretaries of State is satisfied on the representation of the visiting justices of a prison that there is not convenient space within the walls thereof for the burial of offenders executed therein, he may, by writing under his hand, appoint some other fit place for that purpose, and the same shall be used accordingly."[22]. There was a seperate legal system for India, but the English legal system was the basis of it. Alansplodge (talk) 09:16, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

I suppose it depends on your point of view, but generally you would have to do something more than have a political disagreement with the authorities to get yourself hung (like murdering people for instance). The exception might be mutiny by a member of the armed forces, but even then, few mutineers would have been given the death penalty (unless you know better). The exception was the aftermath of the Indian Mutiny, when I can only say that there was excessive and shameful barbarity on both sides. Alansplodge (talk) 16:49, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

After the execution of Bhagat Singh, Rajguru and Sukhdev, their bodies were taken out of the prison and buried in secret. --Soman (talk) 21:03, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Shooting a policeman is likely to get you hanged in a number of countries, even today. Even in India. One man's political prisoner is another's terrorist. Alansplodge (talk) 22:17, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

American Revolution

How would the American Revolution have turned out if Louis XVI hadn't supported the colonists? --70.129.184.122 (talk) 03:29, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Probably badly for the Americans, and probably better for the British. While the British commanders were legendarily idiotic during the early stages of the War, as soon as it became clear that the little uprising was gaining momentum, the shear weight of the British Navy and Army could have easily crushed the Revolution. Indeed, it was well on its way to doing so, after initial reversals, Britain gained control of New York and was busy harassing Washington's badly paid, poorly fed, and undersupplied band of soldiers with its well organized army all over New Jersey and Pennsylvania. France's involvement, especially in terms of naval help, probably was the deciding factor in the war. See France in the American Revolutionary War for a more thorough discussion over French involvement and the role they played in helping America gain its independence. --Jayron32 03:34, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

And probably there would have been no French Revolution either. When French soldiers returned to their impoverished homes with with tales of a successful revolution caused only by a threpenny tax on tea leaves, you can guess what went through their minds. "The peasants paid taxes to the king, taxes to the church, taxes and dues to the lord of the manor, as well as numerous indirect taxes on wine, salt, and bread."[23] Although it has to be said, a lot of this taxation was to pay for the war with Britain. Alansplodge (talk) 17:12, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

So basically, since the American Revolution is responsible for all other democratic governments, the world would still be under absolute monarchs if Louis XVI hadn't been an idiot? --70.129.184.122 (talk) 20:50, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

No. These type of questions are of course impossible to answer with certainty. Surely a lot of things would have been different had Louis XVI had acted differently, but the main force that moves history is not conscious political decisions. The separation between British colonial rule and its colonies were bound to happen at some point, colonialism was a system that gradually became anachronistic. Likewise the feudal rule in France could not have lasted forever, either. Feudalism and mercantile colonialism were systems bound to be defeated by new emerging classes. --Soman (talk) 20:56, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Remember, France had a few more revolutions and other changes in government after the original French Revolution. It's impossible to know how things would have turned out if history had happened differently, but France would not be ruled by an absolute monarch. Buddy431 (talk) 23:15, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

I think your premise that "the American Revolution is responsible for all other democratic governments" is just ever so slightly over-stated. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 21:42, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Britain was not ruled by an absulute monarch in 1777, neither was it fully democratic by today's standards. In an alternative reality with no successful American Revolution, it is possible to invisage the American Colonies developing self-government and independance in the same way as Canada and Australia. Alansplodge (talk) 22:05, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Personality Disorder Name

I have recently become interested in personality disorders and psychology. Today, I was reading a list of questions asked to determine personality disorder [24] when I came across the question, "Do you tend to be critical of loved ones, sometimes holding them to higher standards than you hold yourself to?" Most other questions I could place as relating to specific (or perhaps two or three) disorders, but this question seemed quite specific. My question is: what disorder or class of disorders would this question relate to? Thanks, 12.213.80.36 (talk) 05:20, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

That would be a trait typical of Narcissistic, Histrionic, or (possibly) Schizoid personality disorders, depending on the answers to other questions. It reflects a tendency to to transfer blame/anger onto others, making them responsible for negative events in life. --Ludwigs2 05:49, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

But the thing is, people who do that probably don't realize it, so wouldn't check that box on the form. StuRat (talk) 13:57, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

With no irony, I would say that is standard human nature, so it sounds to me like you're reading one of those throwaway quizzes that try to get you to subscribe to Psychology Today. Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:54, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, this is not a good quiz. a professional therapist would might use something like this if s/he already had suspicions about a particular disorder, but it would be a survey specific to that disorder, and would be diagnostic, not conclusive in and of itself. I don't think even Psychology Today would stoop quite that low; maybe Elle or Cosmo?

It is actually a sign of an always-eventually-fatal brain infection. 66.127.52.47 (talk) 03:26, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

RGB color ranges for human skin, nails, hair, and eyes

Please see RGB color range for human skin and the next three questions at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Computing.
-- Wavelength (talk) 06:01, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Fixed your link (was going to an edit diff). --Anon, 00:54 UTC, 2010-04-04.

Thank you for your good intentions, but I meant it to go there, so that readers could still read at least the question (by scrolling down) even after that discussion has been archived. However, it is not important enough for me to change it back. --- Wavelength (talk) 04:48, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Consanguinity

In Regency England, could a woman legally marry her half-brother's son, please? Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.80.143.189 (talk) 06:52, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

This was regulated by the "Table of Kindred and Affinity" which was an appendix to the Anglican Book of Common Prayer. You can find the details here[25]. The commentary by a genealogist suggests that "half sibs are not mentioned, but I think the inclusion of half sibs is implicit in the general terms 'brother' or 'sister'." Alansplodge (talk) 07:56, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Freedom of Speech during American Civil War

Were people's freedoms limited during the war? Like Freedom of Speech? If someone from Union territory expressed opinions favorable or sympathetic to the Confederates, were they ever arrested or killed? If someone was a vocal opponent of the war? Anything like that? ScienceApe (talk) 06:54, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Habeas Corpus was suspended in the Union, and Lincoln felt free to disregard the supreme court's decision in Ex parte Merryman because Judge Taney and the supreme court had strongly offended northern public opinion in their Dred Scott ruling, and respect for the U.S. supreme court in the north of the U.S. was at an all time low. People were not normally shot just for expressing opinions, but those like Clement Vallandigham who were seen as deliberately attempting to undermine the U.S. war effort did suffer consequences... AnonMoos (talk) 07:09, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

See General Order Number 38, which allowed the U.S. government to execute anyone in Ohio who opposed the war, as a traitor. It was also considered treason to criticize the order, and got you a trial before a military tribunal for having "disloyal sentiments, overall a policy any totalitarian regime could have been proud of. Edison (talk) 12:03, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Whatever -- Lincoln was by no means enthusiastic over Burnside's actions, and quickly put the kibosh on any idea of executing Vallandigham. The situation of the time -- i.e. the complete and utter breakdown of public trust in the U.S. supreme court (due to Taney's very ill-advised past actions), and the use of effective martial law -- put powers into the hands of the U.S. federal government which could have theoretically been used in a toatlitarian manner, but the fact is that generally they weren't. AnonMoos (talk) 13:22, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Lincoln shut down a few newspapers and had their owners imprisoned when they printed (apparently) false information that he thought would lead to desertion. But on the whole there were plenty of expressions against Lincoln, the Union, for the Confederacy, etc. Basically Lincoln shut things down if it seemed like they were actually going to cause desertions, but only actually acted in a few circumstances. There was still plenty of anti-Lincoln, anti-war stuff published in the North during the entire war. --Mr.98 (talk) 18:59, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

is it true if you're poor you can't keep a really expensive gift or won item, you have to sell it?

Is it true that if you're poor in America you can't keep a really expensive gift or won item, or something really expensive that you came to legally possess in some other way, you have to sell it so you can pay the taxes on "the item"? I'm talking for someone with a very low (single-digits $k) income, if they were to win or be gifted or otherwise come legally to possess some item worth fifty million dollars (say) then they would be compelled to sell it, couldn't keep it despite any sentimental value the gift or winning would have to them, since there would be no way for them to pay the cash tax on the item, due even if they have no intention to ever sell the item or do anything with it but have it? I'm just curious; not asking for legal advice. Thanks. 84.153.209.78 (talk) 13:42, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

In some cases, yes, that is true. The details are very complicated, but some gifts and prizes are taxable. If you don't have the money to pay the tax, you have to sell the gift or prize in order to get money. That doesn't just apply to poor people - most people wouldn't be able to afford the tax on a $50m gift/prize without selling the item. Not all gifts and prizes are taxable, though. I don't know the details (I'm vaguely familiar with the rules in the UK, but I know they are very different - lottery winnings aren't taxable here, for example, but I believe they are in the US). --Tango (talk) 13:51, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes. US income taxes are always owed due to contest winnings, whether cash or other prizes. (Of course, the people running the contest could pay the taxes, but then that would also become a taxable benefit, forcing an odd little compounding problem.) Gifts are a bit more complex, and I believe that gifts below a certain value are exempt from taxes. There are also financial instruments that allow you to give money and property that are tax-free or tax-deferred. These are used for education money, inheritance, etc. Tips to waiters and such are also considered taxable income. StuRat (talk) 13:54, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Actually it is more complicated than that. If you win a US$2000 prize, then when it is time to file your annual income taxes after the year's end, you have to include that $2000 prize when you write out what your income is; so if you earned US$20,000 during the year, then when all is said and done, you'd be reporting US$22,000 of income. However, the poorest people in America pay no income taxes (it is a progressive tax), so for the very poor, it's likely that no taxes would be due despite the additional US$2000 of income. If we're talking about a US$1 million prize, then the person's income is now $1,020,000, and certainly a lot of income tax is going to be due. Off the top of my head, federal income tax on that amount of money is going to be around $280,000 (as a guess). This person is probably going to have to sell the item to raise the $280,000, yes. Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:52, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Another weird corner case is if the prize is a house. If the very poor person were to win a US$1 million house, then it may be possible for the person to move into that house and then when the tax bill comes, declare bankruptcy. Although in a bankruptcy the bankrupt person generally has to sell any valuable possessions in order to satisfy creditors (the IRS in this case), there are also laws in most places stating that you can't usually lose your house in a bankruptcy. I am not 100% sure this scheme would work, though, because the poor person knows going into the house that he is going to owe the money to the IRS and has no way of getting it; so it might be ruled that he was therefore already scheming to defraud the IRS, and fraud with regard to an asset generally nullifies the benefit that you'd get from bankruptcy, as it pertains to that asset. So, I would tell that very poor person to go ahead and sell that house, pay his taxes, and move into a smaller house. Comet Tuttle (talk) 18:06, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Realisticly a house is a good thing to win and sell anyway because you could likely sell it for close to it's actual value, whereas with a car or something like that, it'll be difficult Nil Einne (talk) 22:32, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

If you won a $1m house and owed say $300k in income-tax you could just get a Mortgage for the amount you owe the tax-man (though how you'd keep up repayments i'm not sure). Similarly in terms of gifts there are tax-efficient ways of giving - usually things such as Trusts or a form of insurance (if the gift is to be inherited) that pays the tax bill for the deceased's estate. ny156uk (talk) 01:08, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Additionally, there are rules that govern getting a gift from a family member. So if the poor person's parent gave them a gift/money then the person may not have to pay taxes on it. There's a limit to how much a child can be gifted in this way and I don't know what it is off the top of my head. Getting off the subject a bit, in the case of a parent giving a child a car, the parent will often sell the car for US$1. That way it is being sold and is not technically a gift. If the parent were to gift the car to the child, then the child would possibly owe tax on the blue book value of the car. If it's sold for $1, then the tax is negligible. I reiterate though that this depends on which state you are in. If I were to sell someone a car for $1 in my state of Vermont, the buyer would owe taxes on the value of the car and not how much they paid for it. So if the car is worth $2000, the buyer would have to pay a percentage of that $2000 and not a percentage of $1. Dismas|^(talk) 23:54, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Usually for those types of sweepstakes they offer you the option of taking the cash equivalent instead of the actual prize, and I think it is pretty common to take the cash. That's especially the case when the prize is something inconvenient to deal with, like your very own herd of elephants. The prize sponsor likes the spectacle and publicity of offering an attention-grabbing prize, but at the end of the day they'd really prefer for you to take the cash, so they can just write you a check instead of dealing with the huge hassle of delivering the actual house or elephants. 66.127.52.47 (talk) 03:31, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

What Protestant denomination does Obama currently belong to?

After the Reverend Wright Controversy, Obama left Trinity Church which was associated with the Reformed UCC. Currently he attends non-denominational services at Camp David with a Southern Baptist chaplain. So is he still a member of the UCC? I know W-Bush also attended non-denominational service but was still a Methodist. Is it the same with Obama, is he still a Calvinist? Was Rev. Wright a Calvinist? There are major theological differences between the UCC and SBC, does this mean that Obama has changed his religion? Does Obama currently belong to any denomination? --Gary123 (talk) 14:00, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

First off, it's the United Church of Christ, with no "Reformed", though it was established partly in the Reformed tradition. It's a liberal denomination with little fixed dogma. It's a "congregational" denomination in that each congregation mostly makes its own rules; it's hardly Calvinist.

Obama did repudiate the Trinity congregation. It's not clear whether he also quit the UCC. As far as his current denomination goes, he hasn't made any public statements, so we don't know. PhGustaf (talk) 20:12, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

What city is this?

http://i39.tinypic.com/33bonxj.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.185.177.231 (talk) 16:43, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Saint Petersburg; that's the Peter the Great Bridge. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 16:51, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

The photo is taken from the Smolny Convent looking SSE over the Smolny Institute and the Neva River. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 16:57, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Christopher Columbus spoke Arabic?

Did Christopher Columbus speak Arabic when he reach America? I heard this from some Arab Muslim scholar? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.52.211 (talk) 19:15, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

I would strongly doubt it -- but he did apparently take along converted former Jews who spoke Arabic for possible use as translators when he reached China. AnonMoos (talk) 19:24, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Right - the translator was Luis de Torres. Adam Bishop (talk) 19:26, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

When will things in the U.S. seem to have been improving the most?

The recent employment recovery curves in the U.S. (the 2nd graph in this post) seem more symmetrical than most economic statistics, implying that about a year from now, the slope of the current (red, "2007") curve will be the steepest in a positive direction for this business cycle. Please assume that steepness relates to how much things seem to be improving economically.

So, if this recovery is perfectly symmetrical, will the peak year-over-year change in employment (in red on the first graph) be closer to the 3.5% increase seen in 1994, or the 5.5% peak seen in 1984? 99.25.114.221 (talk) 21:18, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Are there school and university classes in the USA

the Holy Week? --190.178.160.73 (talk) 22:17, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes. PhGustaf (talk) 22:37, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

The answer is yes. But if you mean, "Do all schools and universities hold classes during Holy Week?" the answer is no. Wikiant (talk) 22:57, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Public schools in the US will have classes. They generally only take time off for Christmas and, depending on the area, some of the Jewish or Muslim holidays. But the school districts don't call these breaks "Christmas break" or anything specifically religious. They'll call it a "winter break" or "holiday break" since Hanukkah, Christmas, and Kwanzaa are all reasonably close together. Catholic schools will often take Good Friday off in addition to Christmas. Dismas|^(talk) 23:38, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Mnay U.S. schools will have either the week before or the week after and Good Friday off. And even some public school will refer to their winter break as Christmas break. Rmhermen (talk) 00:46, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Of course, many religious schools cancel classes; my alma mater has no afternoon classes on Holy Wednesday and no classes at all on Holy Thursday, Good Friday, or Easter Monday. Nyttend (talk) 02:11, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

It is customary for U.S. schools to have a spring break when no classes are held. In many but far from all cases, this coincides with Holy Week. John M Baker (talk) 04:55, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

April 4

V-shaped job creation diagram

The office of the Speaker of the United States House of Representatives just posted a beautiful V-shaped diagram, which shows that we've safely arrived at the other end of the gorge of job losses. But if that were a Wikipedia article, it wouldn't meet our criteria, because it cites no sources whatsoever. I tried to find the data at http://www.bls.gov/data (green "one-screen" button after "Labor Force Statistics"), but when I use their numbers of employed people (seasonally corrected), I get a different table, namely the following:

year	month	employed	diff to previous	
2007	12	146173		-310
2008	1	146421		248
2008	2	146165		-256
2008	3	146173		8
2008	4	146306		133
2008	5	146023		-283
2008	6	145768		-255
2008	7	145515		-253
2008	8	145187		-328
2008	9	145021		-166
2008	10	144677		-344
2008	11	143907		-770
2008	12	143188		-719
2009	1	142221		-967
2009	2	141687		-534
2009	3	140854		-833
2009	4	140902		48
2009	5	140438		-464
2009	6	140038		-400
2009	7	139817		-221
2009	8	139433		-384
2009	9	138768		-665
2009	10	138242		-526
2009	11	138381		139
2009	12	137792		-589
2010	1	138333		541
2010	2	138641		308
2010	3	138905		264

(Numbers in 1000s.) Does anyone know how the Speaker got her numbers, and why the official employment data are so different? — Sebastian 00:09, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

I think that graph may have originated with Steve Benen.[26] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.127.52.47 (talk) 02:46, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks; his "homemade chart" is indeed similar, but it is different, too. (See in particular the almost even rate between Feb and July 08.) In his articles, he refers the NYT; most recently to this, which says "Employers added 162,000 nonfarm jobs last month", citing [this page http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm] by the Labor Department. But that doesn't have the monthly data for the diagram. The diagram, though, is displayed in the sidebar with the note "Source: Bloomberg", but a search for "Change number jobs site:Bloomberg.com" (for the past week) doesn't yield that diagram, either. It remains mysterious. — Sebastian 04:02, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

You could probably send Benen an email asking details. Or call Pelosi's office. 66.127.52.47 (talk) 04:22, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

major convention deadlock in the U.S. - provisions?

Inspired by an interesting alternate history I'm reading on an online forum (though it deals with a deadlock for months and months in the House over who is elected President), I got to thinking. Especially at the 1924 Democratic National Convention, there have been times when both parties have had major problems nominating someone. However, there is obviously a deadline in each state for filing a name for election.

So, have there ever been discussions about what to do if a convention is deadlocked till, say, late September? Did they ever discuss it in 1924? I imagine one could argue that one side would just walk out, as happened a few times anyway. Or, they would just agree to each run their respective candidate.But, it seems like that would be a sure admission of defeat - unless, of course, the other party was having the same problem.

Oh, one other short question I'm pretty sure I know the answer to: The House can only vote for the top 3 candidates of nobody gets a majority of electoral votes. But, I presume that if 2 candidates are tied for 3rd, the House gets to pick from 4?

Thanks in advance.209.244.187.155 (talk) 02:26, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Look up the 1860 Democratic National Convention... AnonMoos (talk) 02:32, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks; I'd always thought the sides split apart before the convention even convened the first time..209.244.187.155 (talk) 03:19, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

satyagraha

is satyagraha applicable in 21st century? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.248.80.50 (talk) 04:51, 4 April 2010 (UTC)