Talk:Scarlett (gamer)

Ref ideas

• Smith, Ryan (February 5, 2014). "How a transgender "foreign hope" is challenging the pro StarCraft world". The A.V. Club. The Onion. Archived from the original on February 5, 2014. Retrieved February 5, 2014. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
• http://justadventure.com/index.php/2013-05-20-21-09-14/2054-the-new-meta-women-in-esports-nyu-game-center-event
• http://kotaku.com/one-of-starcrafts-biggest-players-is-leaving-for-dota-2-1684244604 (Guardian covers most of it?)
• http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-04-08-winners-might-use-drugs

Note that some sources refer to her as "Hostyn" rather than "Scarlett". I feel like I've seen more of the former than the latter, but I haven't taken a full survey.

czar ⨹ 02:28, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Trans

I am removing the information that Scarlett is trans from her Wikipedia entry, due to WP:Biographies_of_living_persons. She has mentioned on multiple occasions that her being trans is completely irrelevant, and the information was already removed, among others, from the German WP page about her, and from her player page on the TeamLiquid wiki. She explicitly states there that she doesn't want this mentioned, and unless anything comes up that somehow makes her being trans *relevant*, we should heed the restrictions of WP:Biographies_of_living_persons. "I don't see why this is relevant to my player page. It is disrespectful as I have always tried to make it a complete non-issue and including this is subverting that and akin to mentioning someone is the best gay/black/etc player; something that has absolutely no relevance on how they play. Also I have - never - mentioned anything about it in an interview/show/etc (the ThisIsGame article included something from a private discussion which was not intended to be published). Scarlett` 18:45, 2 May 2012 (KST)" Source where Scarlett states she doesn't want this mentioned:. --ZDragon (talk) 14:42, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Hmm. I'm not sure it should be removed. The article that was being cited for it has it in the title of the article; it's hardly hidden unsourced information, and was evidently deemed important enough information for such a prominent position in that source. That said, I understand that she didn't want it on her TL article, so I'm not sure. Sam Walton (talk) 15:56, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

This is a tough situation. Obviously, subjects should not dictate what their articles are about: if a significant number of reliable sources discuss something then we should include it. On the other hand, this has been particularly nasty and common attack against her, as if being a trans woman somehow grants an in-game advantage. (Which of course it does not.) We may have to discuss this again if/when reliable sources cover this more significantly, and find an appropriate way to phrase it in the article. Woodroar (talk) 01:36, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Our job is to present the sources. Hostyn's coverage makes it very clear that games journalists feel the distinction matters. I think a fair solution would be to cite a confirmed source (self-published or, ideally, secondary) about Hostyn's views alongside what the journalists wrote. – czar 02:59, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Scarlett is a great and entertaining player, but implying biological gender has no effect on a gamer's style and ability is beyond ridiculous. We live in a real world - where everything from the color of a bird's plumage, the shape of an insects wings, or the fast-twitch muscle fibers of a gazelle all create differences which should not be ignored for political or societal reasons. Scarlett being biologically male absolutely affects her gameplay - everything from how / when she chooses to be aggressive (or not), to how quick she can react to stimulus. I respect every person's right to their own selves, but competitive gaming is a competition, and, as such, demands fairness. It is scientifically proven that males, on average, react faster than females to visual and audible stimuli (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4456887/). Scarlett, being biologically male, benefits from this biological stimulus (even more-so than the average man). Is Scarlett's transgender status relevant in random conversation? No. Is it relevant when discussing her skill and ability in gaming? Yes.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.237.92.198 (talk • contribs) 01:05, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

If you have sources stating that she has some kind of advantage, let's see them. Given how antiandrogen (and other) hormone therapy works, I doubt that any MEDRS- and BLP-compliant sources exist. Woodroar (talk) 01:30, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Scarlett is NOT "the first woman to win a major StarCraft II tournament" and you insult every competitive woman gamer by forcing YOUR sociopolitical ideology into a supposedly "neutral" knowledgebase. This is completely disgraceful, and disingenuous, and objectively wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drownedcreation (talk • contribs) 01:13, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Title

@Pink Fae: Scarlett is generally the WP:COMMONNAME for the individual as opposed to Sasha Hostyn, as seen in reliable sources. Per WP:NICKNAME the title should probably be Scarlett. This was also generally the concensus as determined by the an RFC on WP:VG. --Prisencolin (talk) 06:05, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Gender

I reverted gender pronoun changes again today. Per MOS:GENDERID, we give preference to self-determination, and we must be particularly careful when adding or changing information about living persons. For anyone interested in reading more, Wikipedia:Gender identity is a good place to start. Woodroar (talk) 23:42, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

I witnessed the ongoing "edit war"; should not the page be semi-protected, as referring to a living person? #!/bin/DokReggar -talk 07:07, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

If it continues, absolutely. I thought it best to start a discussion for the IP editor and anyone else who wants to discuss the edits. Woodroar (talk) 22:28, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Ace (video gamer) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 07:07, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

"After leaving school" sentence

I've removed a sentence twice now as unsourced and unimportant. I read both the AV Club and New Yorker sources and I can't find the claim that she transitioned after leaving high school or the implication that she stopped playing to transition. (Or perhaps to graduate? The sentence isn't clear either way.) Maybe I'm missing it. If someone can point where a source makes this claim, we can certainly discuss whether or not it's appropriate to include in the article. Woodroar (talk) 19:50, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Regardless of whether that sentence in itself is correct, the fact that Scarlett is transgender should be present in this article. We're an encyclopedia and her being transgender, while not relevant to her, is surely relevant amongst the broader context of "Female esports players", at a glance, this article would not inform people who may be wanting to research biological female esports players whether or not she is in fact biologically female. Therefore, it should be mentioned somewhere as it is indeed relevant. Guest - 19:24 12 November 2018 (UTC)

See WP:BLP and WP:V. We summarize what reputable reliable sources say and they tend not to care about her (or any other Esports player's) biology. Woodroar (talk) 00:21, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

First woman to win a major StarCraft II tournament

The "and is the first woman to win a major StarCraft II tournament" claim has been removed several times recently and I'd rather not edit war over it. It seems to be reliably sourced to PC Gamer ("Scarlett's win sees her become the first female player to win a major international LAN in StarCraft 2") and Paste Magazine ("Sasha “Scarlett” Hostyn became the first woman to win a major StarCraft 2 competition") so I believe this sentence should be restored. Woodroar (talk) 11:57, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Career

2022 Scarlett currently plays for the Shopify rebellion, and has been recently resigned for another two years. https://www.dailyesports.gg/shopify-forms-rebellion-and-signs-starcraft-ii-pro-scarlett/ https://twitter.com/ShopifyRebels/status/1466853675863707649 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.235.95.160 (talk) 21:08, 4 January 2022 (UTC)