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{{merged from|Sheeple|4 May 2019}}
 
== Proposed merge from sheeple ==
{{Polltop}} '''no consensus'''. --[[User:Violetriga|violet/riga]] [[User_talk:violetriga|(t)]] 4 July 2005 21:21 (UTC)
{{Discussion top|result=To '''merge''' Sheeple into Herd behavior. [[User:Klbrain|Klbrain]] ([[User talk:Klbrain|talk]]) 06:57, 3 May 2019 (UTC)}}
Proposing to merge [[sheeple]] into this article. It's a pejorative [[WP:NEO|neologism]] referring to the same subject. Per [[WP:NOPAGE]] it seems relatively straightforward. &mdash; <samp>[[User:Rhododendrites|<span style="font-size:90%;letter-spacing:1px;text-shadow:0px -1px 0px Indigo;">Rhododendrites</span>]] <sup style="font-size:80%;">[[User_talk:Rhododendrites|talk]]</sup></samp> \\ 00:03, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' as proposer &mdash; <samp>[[User:Rhododendrites|<span style="font-size:90%;letter-spacing:1px;text-shadow:0px -1px 0px Indigo;">Rhododendrites</span>]] <sup style="font-size:80%;">[[User_talk:Rhododendrites|talk]]</sup></samp> \\ 00:03, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. When we remove the original research and primary sources [4], [5] and [7] it will not lend undue weight to this article. <span style="background-color:#cee">[[User:Wumbolo|<span style="color:#066;font-family:Symbol">w</span><span style="color:#066;font-family:Segoe Script">umbolo</span>]]</span> [[User talk:2Wm|<span style="color:#37C;font-family:webdings">^^^</span>]] 08:33, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
:'''Support''' the merger. --[[User:Jeonghyeonseo|Jeonghyeonseo]] ([[User talk:Jeonghyeonseo|talk]]) 10:59, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
{{Discussion bottom}}
 
Wiki wrong, no such thing as herd instinct or leader or crowd psyx etc. One can lead oneself, crowd etc or not doesn't matter. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Lyhendq|Lyhendq]] ([[User talk:Lyhendq#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lyhendq|contribs]]) 07:52, 23 September 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
== Move to [[Herd mentality]] ==
 
== Sheeple Suggested edit ==
Google stats: 26,000 for "herd behavior", 55,400 for "herd mentality". &nbsp;&nbsp;&mdash;[[User:Teknic|<span style="color:green">Teknic</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Teknic|T]]-[[Special:Emailuser/Teknic|M]]-[[Special:Contributions/Teknic|C]]</sup> 09:12, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 
Linking some discussion relevant here:
*'''Support'''. Would sidestep squabbles between the jihadists of -iour and the crusaders of -ior, at least as regards the article location (which would appear to have been yoghurt-moved at some point in the past). [[User:Hajor|&ndash;''Hajor'']] 18:21, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
{{#section-h:Talk:Sheeple/Archives/2017|suggested edit}}
*'''Support''', indeed. AE/BE neutral phrasings are lovely when they're available. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 10:20, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. It is not the same thing, as not all herd behaviour involves herd mentality. [[User:Philip Baird Shearer|Philip Baird Shearer]] 23:17, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' very strongly. There certainly is such a thing as herd behaviour, it is deeply controversial whether there is such a thing as a herd mentality. Such a move would amount to taking a clear (and minority) POV on a technical issue. [[User:Seglea|seglea]] 4 July 2005 17:20 (UTC)
 
=== LateNo commentsSingular Form? ===
----
*'''Oppose''' Strongly. Herd Behavior is very much different from group behavior. They describe a certain string of economic problem from a different point of view. Herd Behavior can be regared as a sub-subject of group behavior. Specifically, herd behavior describes a situation where people made decisions sequentially while group behaivor does not.Dec 23, 2005. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:BigTiger|BigTiger]] ([[User talk:BigTiger|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigTiger|contribs]]) 00:29, 24 December 2005 (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>
 
From the article...
*'''Oppose''' (did i do that right? lol.) <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:209.129.49.65|209.129.49.65]] ([[User talk:209.129.49.65|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/209.129.49.65|contribs]]) 16:24, 3 February 2006 (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>
 
The word is pluralia tantum, which means it does not have a singular form.
*'''Oppose''' They are two distinct mentalities, and, although comparable, are not the same and thus should not be considered so.--[[User:Tiresais|Tiresais]] 14:44, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
Macro and Micro Scale issues. A Clique has a different psychology
than a mob has a different psychology than a think tank has a different psychology than a demographic has a different psychology
than a Nation.
--[[User:209.129.49.65|209.129.49.65]] 23:24, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
--[[User:Prometheuspan|Prometheuspan]] 23:25, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 
From me...
{{Pollbottom}}
 
There is the term, sheeperson.
== Removed link to groupthink ==
 
There also being a plural form of that term, sheepersons.
I've removed the link to [[groupthink]] from the discussion of political demonstrations. As you'll see if you take the link, groupthink is a term used for ways of thinking that develop in committees and other such slow, reflective decision making bodies. It isn't relevant to a situation like a street demonstration. [[User:Seglea|seglea]] 4 July 2005 17:20 (UTC)
 
[[User:Thibeinn|Thibeinn]] ([[User talk:Thibeinn|talk]]) 20:19, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
== The resistors analogy ==
 
== What's the difference between herd bahaior and conformation? ==
Is it really "resistors in parallel" or "in series" -- I have no idea except that it seems like the larger the herd then the lower the intelligence, and with resistors the conductivity would increase at higher numbers if they were in parallel, and decreas if they were in series. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:201.1.0.235|201.1.0.235]] ([[User talk:201.1.0.235|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/201.1.0.235|contribs]]) 05:02, 19 May 2006 (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>
 
There's also an article conformation. I don't know what's the main difference between this article and that? [[User:Zzzwik|Zzzwik]] ([[User talk:Zzzwik|talk]]) 07:25, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
== Wikipedia ==
 
Considering the definitions here, wouldn't Wikipedia too be an example of herd mentality? <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:172.191.224.120|172.191.224.120]] ([[User talk:172.191.224.120|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/172.191.224.120|contribs]]) 21:09, 24 June 2006 (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>
 
:Wikipedia is more of an example of an [[Emergence|emergent phenomena]], or what is sometimes called in the social science literature [[Self-organization|self-organizing behavior]] or a [[spontaneous order]]. The order that emerges does not require the [[herding instinct]] that may be seen in higher-order vertebrates; e.g., emergence is easily seen in beehives and termite colonies. [[User:N2e|N2e]] 15:48, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 
== Individuals ==
 
"...in many cases the term "herd behaviour" is strikingly inappropriate for the phenomena, since the group is reacting under the orders or influence of a charismatic leader..." Huh? So acting under orders is an excuse for any stupid thing they might do, regardless of what it is? I realize this is a delicate subject, but it's essential that someone come up with a better idea for this part. Orders are no excuse -- remember the Nazis on trial at Nuremberg? <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:71.219.51.225|71.219.51.225]] ([[User talk:71.219.51.225|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/71.219.51.225|contribs]]) 12:51, 2 August 2006 (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>
 
== Herd Intelligence and Resistors ==
 
Is there a good reason not to just take out that section? It's uncited and sounds like a bunch of pop psychology pap. How exactly do you suppose they measured the IQ of a herd of people anyway? [[User:Blurble|Blurble]] 14:46, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 
: Take it out. It's uncited, and all the references to the concept in Google are derived from Wikipedia. --[[User:Nagle|John Nagle]] 23:38, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
 
:: I concur. With no citation, and poorly articulated in any case, it should be removed for now. (...and this input is from one formally trained in both electrical engineering and in economics. I could not make sense of the resistor analogue.) [[User:N2e|N2e]] 16:20, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 
:::Here's more fuel for the fire: according to the formula, if you take two people, each having an IQ of 100, together they have an IQ of 50; if you take 100 such people, their collective IQ is 1 (one); if you take 1 billion, their collective IQ is 0.0000001. It would be understatement to say that this is an absurdity. The more I think about this, the clearer it becomes that this must be a cleverly placed, sarcastic joke. [[User:Neoprote|Neoprote]] 21:55, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
 
:::I went digging through the page history. The paragraph in question was added by [[User:Ikhan85]] on May 11, and he/she also added the statement
::::<i>Typically most wild animals herd in order to benefit the group, for example, when a herd of zebra forms it increases the overall survivability of the group. In the case of most human beings, they herd with the intention of benefitting the group but the actual outcome is detremental to the group</i>
:::which has since been modified. This represents a different and rather condescending interpretation of the phrase "herd behavior" than the one being discussed in the article.
 
:::Since every comment about this has been made with raised eyebrows, I am going to go ahead and delete these additions. If [[User:Ikhan85]] or anyone else wants to disagree with this and/or put the material back, with acceptable citations, there is of course nothing to stop them. [[User:Neoprote|Neoprote]] 16:41, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
 
:::Almost missed a bit there---[[User:Ikhan85]] also added the comment about [[swarm intelligence]]. Upon consideration it seemed to be along the same lines as his/her other additions, so I got rid of it too. [[User:Neoprote|Neoprote]] 16:59, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
 
== Merge [[herding instinct]] here ==
 
I suggest (as did another user sometimes ago) to merge [[herding instinct]] here. Someone apparently believed that the fork was justified on behalf of an alleged difference between "herd behavior" and "herding instinct" which would include both "behavior" and "belief", but it is only splitting contents apart and evading a discussion. On what claims may herd behavior be said separate from "belief" (i.e. [[ideology]])? These two should be split, and the discussion about the relation between belief & behavior addressed here. [[User:Santa Sangre|Santa Sangre]] 22:43, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 
:I recommend not merging these articles as currently proposed. Merging two muddled articles would still leave a muddle.
:However, I do believe there is a confusion present, rather heavy in [[Herd behavior]] article and while less so, still a bit in evidence in the the [[Herding instinct]] article. That confusion is related to some differences between herd behavior in general and human herding in particular. After the merge consensus process is complete (go/noGo), I would recommend a different course be followed; viz, rework both articles to separate the 'herd behavior' more generally seen in some higher-order animals from the specific-to-humans 'herd behavior/herding instinct' that is reflected in the sociology/economic/politicalScience literature, as well as in popular literature. Then, if necessary, we could retitle one of the two articles to "Herding Instinct (human) or Herd Behavior (human) or whatever we can reach consensus on. (Currently, the Herding instinct article deals more specifically with the human herding issue, and the herd bahavior article deals with the topic a bit more generally, and the differences between 'instinct' and 'behavior' just add to the confusion between what should be in each article.) What do you think? [[User:N2e|N2e]] 16:12, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 
::Agreed that we need two articles, neither of which are the ones we have. We need one on real herd behavior of prey herbivores: sheep, cattle, and horses. Those animals have real herd behavior; it's extremely strong for sheep, less so for cattle, and not as dominant for horses. Then we need an article on human mass behavior; crowds, mobs, and politics. I have no opinion on names, but let's get that settled. Start the animal article with a picture of a flock of sheep; that will keep it on track. --[[User:Nagle|John Nagle]] 18:18, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 
::: Seems a good idea to have a specific Human herding article which would reunite most of the texts in [[herd behavior]] and [[herding instinct]]. --[[User:Pgreenfinch|Pgreenfinch]] 22:17, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
 
:Okay, now that the consensus seems to have arrived that we should have just one article on human herding, and now that I have learned that there is another WP article ([[herd]]} in addition to the [[Herd behavior]] and [[Herding instinct]] articles, I '''SUPPORT the MERGE''' of the ''Herd behavior'' and ''Herding instinct'' articles into a single article on human herding. I definitely think the one '''article should be renamed more explicitly''', and not be left as either ''Herd behavior'' and ''Herding instinct''. This is consistent with my comments (above) from late September, but is now explicit. [[User:N2e|N2e]] 01:40, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 
==What should be the name of the (merged) article on human herd behavior?==
 
Now that we appear to have a consensus on the merge of [[Herd behavior]] and [[Herding instinct]] into a single article on human herding, what ought we name the new (combined) merged article? Here are some ideas I see in the various talk posts on all three related articles:
*Herding Instinct (human)
*Herd Behavior (human)
*Human mass behavior
*Herd behavior (social psychology)
*Herd (human)
*Herding tendency (human)
Please add your own ideas, and let your opinion(s) be known. [[User:N2e|N2e]] 03:03, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 
: "Herd Behavior (human)" strikes me as a good choice for the article name, as it describes ''what'' humans do instead of ''why'' they do it. The "why" can include multiple theories (nature/nurture, etc.), and it's probably not a good idea to implicitly endorse any one of them in the title itself...
:[[User:Rgfolsom|Rgfolsom]] 18:45, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 
Also see the article [[Group behavior]] and [[Group dynamics]] etc. Humans from groups not herds. To use the term herd to describe a group of humans carries a pejorative meaning. Few people would admit that they are part of a herd and if they accuse others of being so, it carries connotations of smug superiority by the accuser. I think articles about herds should stick to animal behavior in herds not humans. I think articles about humans should use neutral names like "group behavior" so that the article can have a balanced [[WP:NPOV]]. --[[User:Philip Baird Shearer|Philip Baird Shearer]] 17:13, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
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