File talk:Milvus milvus (side).jpg

 

external re-uses

• http://www.occaphot-ch.com/schw%C3%A4ne-der-welt/neuseeland-schwan/
• http://www.news.ch/Schweizer+Rotmilan+schafft+Flug+bis+Afrika/458676/detail.htm
• http://www.waza.org/en/zoo/visit-the-zoo/birds-of-prey-1254385523/milvus-milvus
• http://eol.org/pages/914570/details
• http://www.zooliberec.cz/cz/katalog/ptaci/lunak-cerveny/171
• http://keptar.oszk.hu/025000/025005//Milvus_milvus_portrait_kiskep.jpg
• http://www.omarfarias.org/que-comen-las-aguilas/

Identity

 Comment I'm pretty certain (90%+) this is a hybrid between Milvus milvus and Milvus migrans - note the intermediate length tail, and the brown (not strongly rufous) plumage, particularly the tail colour (a Milvus migrans character), but also a pale head (a Milvus milvus character). It is strongly intermediate between the two, but does not fit well for either, suggesting hybrid origin between them. But I don't have definite proof of its being a hybrid, which is why I put it in Category:Unidentified Milvus. Maybe the owners (Pairi Diaza zoo in Belgium) might have documentation of its origin. This hybrid is frequent in captivity, e.g. London Zoo famously had 3 which escaped in March 2008, causing many identification problems for birders as they roamed around southeast England over the subsequent months. I would definitely say that this photo (and the other two of the same bird File:Unidentified Milvus (portrait).jpg and File:Unidentified Milvus (sideview).jpg) should not be used as an example of Milvus milvus, as at the links on the file talk pages, as it is misleading in that context. For comparisons, see e.g. the head colour and tail length and colour here, Milvus milvus and here, Milvus migrans. MPF (talk) 00:22, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

It's obviously a young bird, as shown by the white fringes on the coverts. As such, I would expect it to be browner than the adult milvus and possibly have a shorter tail (might also be due to damage if it's a captive bird). There are many pro-Red Kite features, such as the very pale head and rufous on the neck and shoulders, and I can't see any unambiguous indicator for Black Kite. In particular, there is no hint of the dark mask that should obvious in juvenile migrans. Personally, I don't think it's dark enough for juvenile Black Kite either. Since it's a zoo bird, I don't suppose we can rule out hybrids, but if I saw this in the wild I wouldn't hesitate IDing it as juvenile milvus, at least until I saw it fly. Disclaimer: although I'm an experienced birder, with plenty of experience of both Milvus species, I certainly don't consider myself to be an expert on raptor ID, and I'm quite willing to be proved wrong Jimfbleak (talk) 07:05, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for adding; there is also an in-flight pic of it here: File:Milvus milvus (in vlucht).jpg; does that help with the identification? = MPF (talk) 08:34, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

The white in the wings confirms age, it's typical of young Red Kites (as is a short tail, I've checked). Impossible to judge tail shape, especially when spread, from this angle. Also can't count "fingers" at end of wings - 6 for Red, 5 for Black. Tail doesn't look rufous enough, but given the angle that may be an artefact. As before, either Red or a very Red-type hybrid Jimfbleak (talk) 10:05, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

I think the tail is the most suspect feature, but even if it's pure Red, it would be better to use wild images if available, which would also avoid the hybrid issue Jimfbleak (talk) 10:53, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

The discussion is getting fragmented, and I posted my last few comments at Commons:Deletion requests/File:Milvus milvus (side).jpg. Basically, I've had a reply from Dick Forsman who says it's a juvenile Red Kite with typical body plumage. Jimfbleak (talk) 17:44, 25 March 2014 (UTC)