Your work is breathtakingly stunning, and is a shining example for all us amateur heraldists taking an interest in the topic. I have only two questions - 1: Would it be possible for you to publish some of your resources you've created as standalone images? Many of us are getting better with design, but lack the skill to create such high quality supporters and the like and - 2: Have you had any interest in creating some manor of tutorial, or at least providing some details on how you create such magnificent work?
Your work is breathtakingly stunning, and is a shining example for all us amateur heraldists taking an interest in the topic. I have only two questions - 1: Would it be possible for you to publish some of your resources you've created as standalone images? Many of us are getting better with design, but lack the skill to create such high quality supporters and the like and - 2: Have you had any interest in creating some manor of tutorial, or at least providing some details on how you create such magnificent work?
Best regards. [[User:Gotretteunsalle|Gotretteunsalle]] ([[User talk:Gotretteunsalle|talk]])
Best regards. {{21:38, 2 February 2019|Gottretteunsalle}}
== Crown of Rus-Ukraina ==
== Crown of Rus-Ukraina ==
Revision as of 21:48, 2 February 2019
Please direct all new requests here: Graphic Requests (So I can monitor them more easily)
Your work is breathtakingly stunning, and is a shining example for all us amateur heraldists taking an interest in the topic. I have only two questions - 1: Would it be possible for you to publish some of your resources you've created as standalone images? Many of us are getting better with design, but lack the skill to create such high quality supporters and the like and - 2: Have you had any interest in creating some manor of tutorial, or at least providing some details on how you create such magnificent work?
Best regards. Gotretteunsalle (talk)
Thank you very much. I have no plans for the queens at the moment, mostly due to lack of information on them, so its probably better for you to do what you need and I will add a little later. If you need any help on any of the elements just tell me so I can take a look. Sodacan (talk) 11:17, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'd like to preface this with saying that I love your work. Nobody on wiki does it better.
For the Lion of Brabant/Belgium can you do something a little less eastern/Asian looking? It would go better with all the articles of medieval and modern history that it would be represented in if it looked more like the historical lion?
I'm not Sodacan, but I think I can address this. The design is a typical Belgian depiction, so rather than changing it, an alternative file could perhaps be used for pre-Belgian Brabant? I can for example recolor this grotesque lion, which I personally use for medieval and modern heraldry. Lemmens, Tom (talk) 17:19, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No. I won't. The lion is based on historical sources, it is a great work by an 'eastern/Asian looking' person and it will stay. Please do not reappropriate and recycle my work into something else it is not. The lion is for Belgium, not Brabant. There is a difference in depiction at this point and I have not at any time uploaded an arms for Brabant itself. Sodacan (talk) 23:27, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Realizing that any depiction that meets the blasonment is a valid one, but I'm also looking at the Belgian gov't website, which has this:
Why don't you draw it then? If you don't like my work leave my talk page and contribute something else. If I have made a mistake I will gladly correct it. But if this is about preferences then I would have to change all my images constantly to meet the needs of demanding users day in and day out. I am not going to do that. Draw it yourself sir, and contribute. Sodacan (talk) 00:41, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it is not a question of like or not like. Frankly, you've replaced a good deal,of the art work I did for the House of Orange, and yours is better. I have no issues there. It is a question of historical accuracy. For the medieval and early modern dukes of Brabant, a more (as Lemmens mentions) "grotesque" lion is indicated (see, for instance, the article on the French Wikipedia on the Armorial Geldre). I will at least revert to that image already used (I think actually based on your work anyway) at least for the articles I have largely authored. For the modern Belgian Lion, if that is what is used in Belgium, who am I to say that is wrong. I hope this clears everything up. Again, thank you for all the fantastic work you do!
For modern Belgium, the new lion is perfect. Much better then the previous lions. It's just in articles like this (en:Duchy of Brabant) that the new style doesn't really fit. Here (nl:Hertog van Brabant (België)), the article about the title of Belgian crown prince, it would be perfect.
The Netherlands lion would be a better fit than the rather specific Belgian Lion. By the way, this new series of low country arms are yet another example of your fantastic work and style. Wikipedia is much improved by them. Sir Iain (talk) 12:27, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I understand this, I am not saying I am not doing Brabant. The lion is for Belgium, I have no idea why anyone would think that it was suppose to represent Brabant as well. The reason why I have drawn like 100 different lions rampant is because I don't particularly like reappropriating elements from one coat of arms to another. Especially on national symbols such as these. if Brabant deserves its own lion, in its own preferred style- then I will draw it.
My lion was based on several historical images, as listed in the source section of each image. Its funny to me when 'historical accuracy' is used against me, when I am actually one of the very few contributing users left who stills uploads original source-based artwork on here. I miss Katepanomegas, he never complains to me, he understands what I have to go through. Sodacan (talk) 12:59, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's mainly that people can recognize quality, but not being able to produce it themselves. Your work is superb, and easy to reuse, resulting in good derivatives. I'd rather upload a good unoriginal file, than a new one which is lot worse than yours. By the way, I wasn't complaining, just trying to clarify some of the misunderstandings. Sir Iain (talk) 13:09, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, for Brabant, Holland, Flanders and other medieval/early modern counties and duchy a cross between your English lion rampant and your new Dutch lion would be best. But it's not a high priority or something that you should be pressed into doing. Thanks for all your hard work. Sir Iain (talk) 13:15, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I know you weren't complaining, the ranting part was suppose to be in general (or for the user above you- or whoever). I will find a source and create a new Lion for the purpose. Sodacan (talk) 13:23, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Problem is that Brabant, having both existed for so long and being at the centre of a lot of cultural exchange, hasn't got a specific style. Nothing is truly representative. So you're basicly always going to exclude certain periods. :-p For example, looking at some etchings, if the Belgian lion loses his tummy, he'd fit well with the 17th century naturalistic depictions. Lemmens, Tom (talk) 15:17, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
My apologies. For what's it worth, I continued with your wording from 12:59, depiction could've fit better. I never had the intention to open that can of worms. Lemmens, Tom (talk) 16:15, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
exterior ornaments. of children of Beatrix
I can send you this site for you so you can see that the coat of arms children of Queen beatrix have different exterior ornaments.
Don't suppose you plan on redrawing the arms of Luxembourg, do you? As it would be great to see them redone in the same great style as the other arms of the Low Countries.
Hi Sodacan, I've been trying to create vector images with the Inkscape to clear the huge backlog on English Wikipedia, and recently uploaded some maps on user request. It's easy to vectorize simple logos, but complex emblems seem out of my reach. How do you trace them? Do you know any good tutorial videos or have any tips?—Bill william comptonTalk16:04, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm afraid that I have very little to impart to you in terms of tips and tutorials. This is because I have learnt almost everything through trial and error myself. I have never been taught or instructed in graphics design or art in any way at all. For comparison this is the first image I have ever uploaded: File:Royal Thai Navy Seals Emblem.svg, and this is a recent one I made earlier this year File:Coat of Arms of Margaret Thatcher, The Baroness Thatcher (1995–2013).svg. The best thing to do is to find a vector image that you like and would like to replicate. Download it, then take it apart to see how it is constructed, you can learn a lot that way. Sodacan (talk) 19:02, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. I've been admiring what I've just found out to be your work for months now, and I must say that it is truly astonishing. I never realized that one person could create so many truly beautiful coats of arms an elements. May I ask, how do you make them (using what)? Thanks, Nathan
Old Coat of Arms Of House Petrović-Njegoš and Montenegro
Hello, this is historical Coat of arms of Montenegro Old Coat of Arms of Montenegro (eagle is silver it is just a golden material) i just wanna show it to you and if you ever decide to do a coat of arm on request i hope it will be this one. Thank you anyway, your work is truly amazing! CarJunakaCg (talk) 03:34, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Dutch Lions
Dear Sodacan,
It seems as though you've made a minor mistake regarding 19th century the arms of the Kingdom of the Netherlands: the supporters are lacking a fluffy tuft of hair on the middle of their tails. Here are a few pictures on the web for comparison: [5] and [6]
Kind regards, Sir Iain (talk) 20:17, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Coat of Armas of Knud "the Great"
Hi Sodacan, (I'm sorry for my english), can you edit this image (), when you have time, to be equal to this that you created:
Sorry to intrude, but I just noticed this post. This is a fantasy insignia, the first Danish monarch that is known to have used a coat of arms is Canute VI (dating from c. 1194), and in all likelihood his father Valdemar I the Great used the same "Three Lions" arms as well (but this hypothesis has never been proven). No coats of arms are known for any previous Danish monarch. The lindorm (wyvern) [symbolising the Wends] relates to a title adopted by Canute VI, but the insignia dates from c. 1440. At the time of Canute (Knud) the Great, Denmark didn't control the region it represents, it was ruled by the Obotrites. Their fortress Arkona was conquered by Denmark in 1136 and 1168, and effective Danish control of the region is most prominent in the 13th century. The Norwegian Lion dates from the 13th century, so both insignia in this combined arms were adopted more than 200 years after the reign of Canute the Great. Btw: very nice work with the Dutch insignia and those of the English queen consorts, they are very beautifully rendered. --ValentinianT / C13:17, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, Valentinian. I Know that is a fantasy insignia, who say in the picture's description, the insignia is attributed later by someone else. I think that it's interesting to have it for the article of the North Sea Empire (explaining that is attributed later), for this reason I asked Sodacan if he had time he change as the insignia of the solitary lion. - Lector d Wiki (talk) 09:30, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Copyright over an existing symbol?
Hi, I've seen that you reverted my edit on the coat of arms of the Kingdom of France and I want to know how you can justify an entire reversion like this. Could you tell me what of the information I added is wrong?: 1) The coat was primarily created before 1305; 2) it is PD in France so {{PD-old}} -as I tagged it- perfectly applies (therefore you can't be the "copyright holder" of a coat of arms created in the XIV Century). 3) The derivative work indicated File:Blason comte Anjou.svg no longer exists on Commons.
I don't understand why you reverted ALL the changes made, but you are certainly wrong. Probably you think that if you vectorize an existing coat or image, you automatically become the copyright owner of that emblem. In cases like this or the famous Coat of arms of the UK, you vectorized an existing emblem, but their were not "original" creations by you. If the CoA of the UK was not a PD image ({{PD-UKGov}} as a Crown work), your rendition wouldn't be able to be hosted here. And some time ago you arbitrarily deleted the PD-UKGov tag on this image (still don't know why).
So please, leave your ego behind and don't revert good faith edits in the future. If you insist on this, I'll have to report your reversions.
Thanks, - Fma12 (talk) 17:21, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Please do, please report my edits now. So we can have this debate in the open as oppose to you arbitarily and randomly changing vital information on these files once every other month. All the symbols and coat of arms that I made a rendition of is for the benefit of the whole Wikipedia community, usually they are images that have not existed before or have not been deposit here on commons in svg format. This is not about ego, this is about me doing my bit for the community and utilising my skills on a beneficial way.
As for the issue of copyright, you are wrong. All images are adaptations and derivative works of art based upon copyright or non-copyrightable work. Any PD images is non-copyrightable but my rendition of it could be. The UK government owns the copyright to the UK coat of arms that 'they' themselves drew but not on any other work that is drawn by a private individual. Please point out where in my work is drawn by the British government? The coat of arms of France is a PD image and is non-copyrightable, however my rendition of it is not copyrighted in any restrictive sense, the copyright belongs to the Wikimedia foundation under a free license, as a result no one owns the copyright. Anyone is free to adapt, use and abuse it as much as they want. The only ego issue here is at least my name, the name of the artist who created the image, is allowed to be attached to the file description. If you think this is a violation of the UK government's rights then you are wrong. I know your edits are done in good faith but so is my uploads of hundreds of images for free use. But in this case you are incorrect to edit file information, which bear no infringement on anybody's rights but the artist's. Sodacan (talk) 17:41, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I have some disagreements with you. First of all, I didn't edit "arbitrarily" (as you said) when I included the {{PD-UKGov}} license in the UK coat of arms. As far as I know, the coat was originally created by the British Government, not by you. What you did is to make a (great) SVG rendition of the coat although this is not enough to attribute it as your own "creation" (in the concern that "creation" refers to the original concept of an image). About your statement "The UK government owns the copyright to the UK coat of arms that 'they' themselves drew but not on any other work that is drawn by a private individual" you are wrong: this is PD because of its age and therefore you can upload a rendition at Commons. On the other hand, what is the difference between your version of the UK CoA and the Royal coat of arms showed at the UK website? May be the shading effects and the vector image format, of course, but the concept and drawing was an original idea by the UK Gov. That's what I'm referring to.
I have rendered many logos and emblems during all these years, such as Boca Jrs badge or some corporate logo, even traffic signs but I did not attribute the copyright on them because those have been created before, being assured that those images were free of copyright before uploading them. What I ask you is not to revert "anything" but take a look at the edit first, because some of the information of your image may be incorrect. I always edit in good faith. - Fma12 (talk) 19:01, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Coats of Arms are not comparable to the images you link. While those logos need to be perfect clones of the original, this is not the case with coats of arms. Per Commons:Coats of arms, it is the blazon (composition) and PD-old renditions that are in the public domain, Sodacan's files are his own artistic creations and thus copyrightable renditions. Commons:Coats of arms also points out the difference between a coat of arms and a logo. Commons:Coats of arms belongs to the guidelines and policies of Wikimedia Commons, and was written by administrator Micheletb. Lemmens, Tom (talk) 19:37, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I use the word arbitarily because you pick and choose files at random and then delete vital information from them without discussion or notification. I have never and still don't claim that I have originally created any images. All of my uploads are derivative works of original art, which I recognised and the information is in the description itself. I am merely the artist who created 'these' particular files. Again the the UK government in no way have helped me draw anything, all of it is my own rendition based on a PD image. If you cannot see the difference between my work and the example you link, and still thinks just because they are somewhat similar to your eyes- then the issue here is really about your perception of differences and threshold of derivatives. Please understand what these are and their effects on copyright before you make edits on other people's uploads. The examples you give are clearly different, logos and traffic signs demands absolute copies and obedience to the original which coats of arms do not. Furthermore a logo from 2012 will inevitably have different source information to that of a coat of arms that was based on art from the 19th century. I don't claim and in fact do not have copyright over these images, I merely put my name in as the artist who made 'this' redition. Whatever is left of the free license (usage and free status) is own by Commons itself. Please, please, please make good on your threat to me and report me, I am so tired of having to revert edits from users like yourself, I get them once every other year. Let's sort this put the issue in front of the community, I am confident in my position and will continue to revert your edits, not because I don't assume good faith on your part, but because I know you are just wrong. Sodacan (talk) 01:33, 15 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the answer on the question "Does a rendition of a CoA has an own copyright?" differs from country to country. Here in Germany, own renditions of CoAs usually do not have one, but if this applies alos to your highly sophisticated ones is hard to say. For other countries, especially anglo-saxon ones, the answer is different, as the treshold of originality is lower than in Germany. That is an unvolved problem here on Commons.--Antemister (talk) 10:23, 17 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hello - I am asking you today, because the originator of this image claims the proper use of elements created by you. May I ask for your help and judgement on this image. It is supposedly a coat of arms from 1573. I doubt that the type of shield (looks like French Empire), the plough (is to sophisticated) and the crown are contemporary. To me it is a compiled unworthy piece of heraldry. Do you agree? --Maxxl2 - talk19:02, 24 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Could you perhaps switch the rows around? The overlap of the middle fleur-de-lis at the top and the bottom has been found to make the overlapping elements less clear. Having the fleur-de-lis of the crown and the medal of the order positioned between the elements of the semée-de-lis seems to be preferable, and would alleviate the issues raised in the deletion request of the previous file. It would also be closer to File:First Royal Standard of France.jpg. Lemmens, Tom (talk) 21:52, 25 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Congradulations! You did an excellent job, and it is as close as you can get to the real flag at the time of the Kingdom of France. Well done!--Captain Thor (talk) 05:23, 1 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Sodacan, I know it's five years old, but the tail in File:Lion_Rampant_tail_nowed.svg is not actually knotted - the tip of the tail would have to pass underneath the upper bight (through the loop), whereas in the image it passes over. I'm not sure whether that was intentional or not, so thought I'd ask. Cheers, and thanks for all your fantastic work! Storkk (talk) 12:07, 1 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Sodacan, I've tried fixing it myself, but since I'm not an inkscape expert it's very hacky. Hope all is well, Storkk (talk) 11:51, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Requests for creating and uploading the Queen Mother and Queen Mary's Crown
Dear Sodacan,
We want to see your SVG uploads of the Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother's Crown and Queen Mary's Imperial Crown (Queen Mary is the wife of King George V). I hope that these creations will complete in an immediate time. So, don't forget to create and upload these diagrams!
--ALF-MY (talk) 04:20, 19 May 2014 (UTC)ALF-MY[reply]
Hello, thank you for taking the time to read this, and I do hope you'll respond.
Please forgive my ignorance on this matter - I am a student of heraldry, and upon seeing the arms of the Queen Mother, I was struck by the shape of the escutcheon, and wondered whether that shape held any particular significance. I understand that your execution is from a blazon in Pinches. I don't have access to that work, I was wondering whether there may have been a plate showing that shape of escutcheon, therein, and also wondered if there was a discussion of the shape of the escutcheon, therein. Alternately, if you could direct me to a reference discussing the shape of the escutcheon? I'm trying to work out if there is some manner of historical precedent for that, or a ruling somewhere by a herald.
A bit of further research leads me to believe that this is a type of lozenge escutcheon (that I had not seen used before). I'm still curious as to whether this shape was from a plate in Pinches or if it was something you saw elsewhere or if it is your own introduction (I'm not faulting it; it seems a great way to handle fitting impaled arms of quartered arms into a lozenge).
Did you use any specific typeface when making the motto of some British coats of arms ("dieu et mon droit" etc) or did you make it from scratch? I am looking for a similar typeface for a side project and I'd appreciate any help.
Work of art
I simply must drop in and say 'I love your work'! Especially the coats of arms on the Order of Garter page. I' d love to see something similar done for the Order of the Thisle. Cheers ! Have a nice day :).--Killuminator (talk) 19:22, 12 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The file was a request by a user many years ago it was based on a cropped out version of this image (or its variant) File:Brockhaus and Efron Encyclopedic Dictionary b15 462-3.jpg. The arms are evidently fictitious and was definitely never used by the Qing, it was probably an invention by a misguided artist (in this case Brockhaus and Efron Encyclopedic Dictionary). I merely made it to satisfied the requested user, the title of the file reflects the fact that it was fictitious and was never used. To be fair this was not the case when I uploaded the file and I changed the information after I was informed of this fact. Upload your own emblem if you know what it is. The first file was just for fun on my part, just an ordinary blue Chinese-style dragon. Sodacan (talk) 12:51, 22 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, Sodacan, it's been a while. Good to see you're still active; every time I drop in it seems someone is missing.
I used to wonder when the official version of these arms would come out, and now I happened to find out that this took place in September 2013. (The College of Arms took their time, didn't they? Two-and-a-half years after the wedding...) It looks good, but I note that you haven't fixed the unicorn's chain to the compartment, which is inconsistent with your own past practice. (I'm also a bit uncomfortable with the edge of the helm's collar obscuring part of the coronet, but I may have seen peers' arms with either the coronet or the helm "in front", so I'm not sure about that.) Waltham, The Duke of23:20, 13 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sodacan, looking at the file, it states that the image is your own work; I'm not sure you've got that correctly described, as it looks like it is an image from a book that has been scanned in. If that's the case, the original origin needs to be given for it in the author file and the correct license added. If it was you who wrote the book, of course, my apologies! Hchc2009 (talk) 18:27, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Edinburgh
Hi Sodacan. Sorry if I'm being rude (and I know you ask for patience on your graphic requests page), but my request for the arms of Edinburgh has been up for almost two months now, with no response or acknowledgment of any sort that you've even seen it. As it's rather important, please let me know promptly whether or not you're willing to work on it, so if the answer is no I can find someone else who is. Zacwill16 (talk) 16:01, 4 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hello again. I've taken note of this new work of yours, and as always, it's great. I really like the mantling, which makes full use of the shield's width in a style reminiscent of that period's heraldry. (I also like the contrast between the white lion on black and the black lion on white; you don't see that kind of thing all that often where it's not direct counter-changing.)
Anyway, the sentiments expressed above are genuine, but you know I'm here to point out a slip-up. In this case, the blazon you cite for the arms in question doesn't match the image. The description of the third quartering looks like a typo ("Argent; a chevron between three fleurs-de-lis Argent"), but the lack of Or in "Argent; on a chevron Sable; a mullet of the first" doesn't. I looked up your source and found it here (you could use the link on the image page, given the stability of Open Library and its links), and it turns out both quarterings in the image are inconsistent with it. Unless you have another source in mind, I'm afraid your shield's upper half will have to be black. (I don't know if this image is to blame for the confusion; it shows all the quarterings as colour on metal.) Waltham, The Duke of17:14, 26 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your correction to the third quartering. I see you haven't changed the sixth quartering's field to Argent, though; I suppose I could have been clearer about it in my post above, or maybe I have missed something and it really should be gold after all. Waltham, The Duke of20:24, 21 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The Earl of Bothwell's arms
Hi. I noticed that you've created this illustration of the arms of James, Earl of Bothwell (aka James, Duke of Orkney). Do you have a source for this? In his System of Heraldry Nisbet records a rather different coat for the Earl, being: Quarterly, 1st Gules on a chevron Argent two lions pulling at a rose of the field (Hepburn); 2nd Azure, a ship Or with sails furled Argent, within a double tressure flory-counter-flory Or (Dukedom of Orkney); 3rd ermine, three chevronels Gules (Lordship of Soales); 4th Or, a bend Azure (Vass, Lord Dirleton).
I'm also doubtful of the accuracy of your rendition due to the fact that placing the arms of an heiress in an escutcheon of pretence is an English practice, unheard of in Scotland until recent times. Zacwill16 (talk) 17:31, 19 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like The Manorial Guild is using your artwork on their website without giving you credit, see [7]. The encircled 'tm' in the corners of the image are not actual trademark symbols, either. You could try to file a DMCA, but I believe the corporation is in Britain and so not required to abide by that document. Another option is to notify the British authorities of trademark fraud. Best regards. Do zla boga (talk) 19:46, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Prince Harry of Wales
I note you abandoned the version of his arms with the circlet of the Royal Victorian Order, this however, was only half right as the top three ranks (Dame/Knight Grand Cross, Dame/Knight Commander and Commander) are all entitled to encircle their arms with the ribbon of the Order. The difference being that the relevant badge is suspended. See Royal Victorian Order. Dame/Knights Grand Cross may also place the Collar of the Order around their arms.
To complete his full achievement his arms should also include the Royal Helm as borne by the Sovereign and ALL Princes of the Realm.
Steve H.
Good day to you sir. I have used your works to create the image below. I have stated that once you will have the time to update the Arms of His Royal Highness, that "my version" will be replaced by your superior work.
Have a good day. Christophe Stevenson
,
Lancs Rose
Hi, This revision of the Lancashire Rose image apparently has a quite serious error (if you care about that sort if thing). It seems to be upside down which I've read is the Yorkshire way not the correct way :-) Hopefully you can fix reasonable soon otherwise I'll try to do something myself.--Trappedinburnley (talk) 17:48, 7 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Arms of Mortimer Earls of March
I was doing a bit of research on Sir Arthur Plantagenet KG, 1st Viscount Lisle (4th creation), who was the illegitimate son of King Edward IV, and the last male Plantagenet. His arms as recorded on his Garter Stall Plate at Windsor are these:
Blazon: Quarterly of four: 1st: Quarterly 1st and 4th France modern and 2nd and 3rd England (royal arms); 2nd & 3rd: de Burgh; 4th: Mortimer; over-all a bend sinister; over all an inescutcheon of pretence of Grey, Viscounts Lisle, quarterly of six, 1st: Barry of six argent and azure in chief three torteaux (Grey, Viscount Lisle); 2nd: Barry of argent and azure, an orle of martlets gules (Valence, Earl of Pembroke), 3rd: Gules, seven mascles or conjoined 3, 3, 1 (Ferrers of Groby); 4th: Gules, a lion rampant within a bordure engrailed or (Talbot); 5th: Gules, a fesse between six crosses crosslet or (Beauchamp); 6th: Gules, a lion statant guardant argent crowned or (Lisle) Crest: On a cap of maintenance gules turned up ermine, and inscribed in front with the letter A, a genet guardant per pale sable and argent, standing between two broom-stalks proper.
Thus the fourth (Mortimer) quarter shows: Or three bars azure on a chief of the first three pallets between two gyrons of the second, over all an inescutcheon argent. This matches the Mortimer arms described in Boutell (pp 58/59). However the Wiki page also provides an image of Lisle's arms before his marriages:
Arms of Arthur Plantagenet before his 1st marriage. They are his paternal arms, with baton sinister azure for bastardy, of Edward, 4th Duke of York, Later King Edward IV: Quarterly 1st: Arms of King Edward III; 2nd & 3rd: Or a cross gules (de Burgh), 4th: Barry or and azure, on a chief of the first two pallets between two base esquires of the second over all an inescutcheon argent (Mortimer)
Somehow the Or three bars azure on a chief of the first three pallets between two gyrons of the second, over all an inescutcheon argent has been transmogrified into Barry or and azure, on a chief of the first two pallets between two base esquires of the second over all an inescutcheon argent. Moreover the same error seems to have been perpetrated with all the Mortimer Earls of March, including Edward Plantagenet who later became King Edward IV (and Viscount Lisle's father). And what on earth are "two base esquires"? Gyrons I understand, but "base esquires"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.124.188.199 (talk • contribs) 10:28, 2 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I wish you would share your sources
Hi Sodacan, thanks for all the superb heraldry images, such a great asset to Wikipedia. I sometimes wish you would share with us your sources for your coats of arms. Not needed for well-known ones, but for some of the more arcane ones you serve up, often the most interesting for that reason, it would be valuable to know your source. I'm sure you don't invent them!(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 13:57, 15 August 2015 (UTC))[reply]
Wanting to attribute you correctly
I'm planning on using some of your images (under the terms of the CC licences you've made them available under) and I just wanted to ask how I should attribute them to you. I'm perfectly happy to attribute them to Sodacan if that is your preference, but I want to check that that is what you want, rather than in some other way).
Henry IV
Your images on the english wiki for Henry IV of England have been removed due to lack of citation. I think that may be a pity, but don't have the knowledge to question that decision or to add citations. Up to you what, if anything, you want to do. — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 186.242.233.78 (talk) 19:49, 14 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm looking to hire artists to design vector coats of arms for coadb.com. I pay $1.75 USD per arms. That’s not much, but I purchase a huge +10,000 image clipart package (called Armorial Gold) for you to use, which makes the process much faster and easier. I currently have two artists who work for me, and they have earned several thousand dollars over the last 12 months. Please contact me [email protected] if you are interested.Coadb1984 (talk) 15:35, 26 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Credit for boar
In my new user page, their is your White Boar Badge of Richard III picture because what it stands for is totally me. Can I give you credit?
Coat of Arms of Peter Phillips
Hi Sodacan,
You once made the vector image of the Coat of Arms of Peter Phillips. Since he is a grandchild of the Queen Elizabeth II (via his mother), is he not also entitled to have a heraldic crown of a grandchild of the Sovereign above his coat of arms? Could that be added? I couldn't find this anywhere. Thanks in advance. Mr. D. E. Mophon (talk) 14:42, 14 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Mr. D. E. Mophon: : a point well raised but the answer is no. This because Princess Anne (now The Princess Royal) specifically objected to HM's offers of titles for her husband & children - she wanted to help modernise the British Royal Family. Thus, Capt Mark Phillips & Peter Phillips display Gentlemen's helms above their arms (Capt Mark Phillips was, however, granted hereditary heraldic supporters - most unusual for a commoner). Hope of help. Best L'honorable (talk) 00:39, 15 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@L'honorable: , the coronet is a separate consideration from any titles. The Queen's maternal grandchildren are entitled to it by law. One, however, can choose to bear less than one is entitled to. 7 Letters (talk) 19:41, 16 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I always wanted to make my own coat of arms but it's hard finding individual elements and I'm bummed out. I would appreciate it very much you could draw the following elements:
Supporting bear
Supporting lions in the Belgian coat of arms
Supporting horse
Supporting bison
Supporting lion from the Malawian coat of arms
Heraldic helmet from Prince Alberts coat of arms
It would mean the world to me if you can do this
Thanks!
Sincerely Feddra
Red flag with the Coat of Arms of Siam at the centre. Created during the reign of King Chulalongkorn (reigning 1868–1910) for the first modern equipped land force in Siam.
1936–1939
Flag of the Royal Siamese Army
Triranga with the old emblem of the Royal Siamese Army at the center.
1939–1946
Flag of the Royal Thai Army
Triranga with the old emblem of the Royal Thai Army at the center. Top right is the Royal Cypher of King Ananda Mahidol (reigning 1935–1946).
1946–1979
Flag of the Royal Thai Army
Triranga with the old emblem of the Royal Thai Army at the center. Top right is the Royal Cypher of King Bhumibol Adulyadej.
Red flag with a ratio of 2:3, with the emblem of Royal Thai Army: a chakra under the Thai symbol for Aum /Unalome topped by the Great Crown of Victory with rays emanating from the top and surrounded by a wreath.
ธงชัยเฉลิมพลทหารบก
Flag
Date
Use
Description
1935-1949
Royal Thai Army Unit Colour
A square national flag of Thailand with the old emblem of Royal Thai Army in middle, surrounded below with the unit's name, and the Royal Cypher of King Ananda Mahidol at top right canton. This Colour called "Thong Chai Chalermphol" (ธงชัยเฉลิมพล) which can be translated as "Victory Colours").
1949-1979
Royal Thai Army Unit Colour
A square national flag of Thailand with the old emblem of Royal Thai Army in middle, surrounded below with the unit's name, and the Royal Cypher of King Bhumibol Adulyadej at top right canton.
1979 -
Royal Thai Army Unit Colour
A square national flag of Thailand with the emblem of Royal Thai Army in middle, surrounded below with the unit's name, and the Royal Cypher of King Bhumibol Adulyadej at top right canton.
Triranga with the emblem of the Royal Siamese Air Force Division (name later changed to Royal Siamese Air Force in 1937) on a blue background in the center.
1939–1946
Flag of the Royal Thai Air Force
Triranga with the old emblem of the Royal Thai Air Force on a blue circle in the center. Top right is the Royal Cypher of King Ananda Mahidol (1935–1946).
1939–1946
Flag of the Royal Thai Air Force
Triranga with the old emblem of the Royal Thai Air Force on a blue circle in the center. Top right is the Royal Cypher of King Bhumibol Adulyadej.
1946–1979
Flag of the Royal Thai Air Force
Triranga with the emblem of the Royal Thai Air Force on a blue circle in the center. Top right is the Royal Cypher of King Bhumibol Adulyadej.
Sky blue flag in the ratio of 2:3, with the emblem of the Royal Thai Air Force: double-wings with the Thai Aum/ Unalome under the Great Crown of Victory with light emanating from the top.
Am wondering if you are still actively taking requests at English Wikipedia
I left a message on your request page on English Wikipedia but noticed that you haven't edited there lately. Are you still actively reviewing requests? Love your work. 7 Letters (talk) 14:21, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, very good work on these as usual. You made a small error on the arms of the women, nontheless : Sweden Ancient is "azure, thre bars wavy argent, a crowned lion or armed, tongued and teethed gules", not "barry wavy of six, azure and argent, a crowned lion or armed and tongued gules". ^^ — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.214.19.254 (talk) 12:54, 25 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Dear colleague! I am an administrator of Wikipedia in Esperanto. I have reviewed few your edits, they all are okay. I want to give to you an autoreview status. Do you agree? Gamliel Fishkin11:34, 26 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hey mate looking good your insignia, we've got the same passion
& I saw a request from someone for you to vectories some of my RCN DEU Slipons
Happy to collaborate, Some of your RAAF Insignia needs a tweek, happy to talk on other means — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hawkeyebasil (talk • contribs) 12:30, 06 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hello my friend. I too would have expected an Imperial Crown, but based on the close-up I have from the one draping his coffin it appears to be a St. Edward's Crown. I agree that it seems odd.
In any case, I am so happy and amazed to see all the wonderful new images you have been adding. You deserve much thanks for all the work you do. I don't want to add terribly to your workload, but do have a suggestion if you ever feel you need something new. You may have noticed I was working on all the British royal standards. I have improved them as best I can, but I do not have your skills. I have found some high-detail images on Alamy from some old flag books. There is the modern version, this one with an older harp that was used around the first half of the 1900s, and an even older version that was used in the 1800s. Actually, there is a tonne of scans heraldic images from old flag books in high detail on Alamy that you will find that interest you, you just need to put some simple words in the search. Anyhow, thank you for all of your recent efforts. Fry1989eh?16:45, 10 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Flag of the Chief of Staff of the Canadian Army
Sodacan, where did you get the source material for "Flag of the Chief of Staff of the Canadian Army"? I can't find it in any official register. The reason I ask is as there is no such thing as the "Chief of Staff of the Canadian Army". Although the Commander of the Canadian Army does have a chief of staff, this person certainly does not have their own flag. trackratte (talk) 21:43, 25 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sourcing and British royal heraldry
Hi! I would like just to advise that while your uploads are of great quality, a source should also be provided so that others may know on what they were based on. They may be your "own work" but they need to be verifiable that they are not just made up.
For example: File:Coat of Arms of Philip Mountbatten (1947-1949).svg
-what is the source? from where is it based on? and from where does the blazon come from?
You could start with those being nearest in relation to the present monarch and their wives. Then the other princes, etc.
@Re5x: [10] I am in the middle of a vacation, will do so when I return home. I have the source for all of them from: PINCHES, J.H & R.V., The Royal Heraldry of England, 1974, Heraldry Today. --Sodacan (talk) 07:21, 28 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
GG flags
I am so very happy to see all the new GG flags you have added, so wonderful. I don't want to add heavily to your load, but I have a few flags that are related. You may already have these images yourself, but I'll share with you just in case.
For Canada, I am sure you are aware of this page on the FOTW website. These book scans for the 1901-1921 and 1921-1931 flags are higher resolution. [11], [12], [13].
Done; Have India still to do. But it's just the different crown right? heraldically they are the same crown (Tudor and Imperial). --Sodacan (talk) 15:44, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I am not sure about the crown. It definitely isn't the Imperial Crown of India, it looks like the "Tudor" crown. Thanks. Fry1989eh?16:28, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You claim the copyright of images such as File:British Royal Navy OR-9.svg or File:British Royal Navy OR-7.svg. Could you elaborate on that, please? I would have assumed that the images, as faithful reproductions of those British badges, are either in the public domain if the badge in question is so old that copyright no longer applies, or covered by Crown copyright (and thus a copyright violation) if it isn't. Either way you wouldn't be the copyright holder. Huon (talk) 22:54, 22 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The original badges are in the public domain due to age. I am considered the copyright holder as I converted them or recreated them in vector format. Anyway it should be made clearer that the file are not original and are my own rendering of them. These would be originals I worked from: [14] and [15]. --Sodacan (talk) 00:49, 23 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Shoulder board insignia for the ranks of Commodore, Captain and Commander in the Royal Navy, as worn on the Ceremonial Day Coat
Hi Sodacan, was just wondering if you would be able to create svg versions of the gold shoulderboards of the above ranks, as worn by the Prince of Wales at his wedding (Commander) and the Duke of York at the anniversery celebrations for the Falklands War (Captain)
To clarify; the insignia are:
Commodore:Crown, crossed baton & sword and one star.
Note that any use of the Queen's cypher (EIIR) on the shoulderboards merely reflects that person's appointment as aide-de-camp or chaplain to the Queen, and is not a normal part of the shoulderboard otherwise.
If you created this file, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for deletion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it, such as a copyright issue. Please see Commons:But it's my own work! for a guide on how to address these issues.
Please remember to respond to and – if appropriate – contradict the arguments supporting deletion. Arguments which focus on the nominator will not affect the result of the nomination. Thank you!
I'm writing to you to know if you would be interested by making a Wild woman supporter? Someone uploaded a new version of File:Coat of arms of Antwerp (City).svg. The main problem is that it overwrites a previous version made by someone who tried to make a wild woman supporter from your wildman supporter (who is great). Asking you this because I think you could make Antwerp COA looking really good. Let me know!
Hello Sodacan, I was wondering why did you change the style of Harp from the one that appears on the British Royal Standard to a different one. In my opinion the previous version made better sense as surely the style of harp wouldn't have been changed when it was added to the British Royal Standard. Regards
Hi there, OMG, I'm sorry. The previous file name is already correct. Can you revert it back? Sorry. I was thought it is the flag of North Borneo. Night Lantern (talk) 12:06, 10 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Please stop removing the invalid SVG template until you fix the error. Any SVG validator will show you it is in invalid, including the one used on Wikicommons. I appreciate your incredible work, but many many people use your files to create new files, which means on a file with an error, they typically take the error with them. I am not vandalizing the file so kindly stop reverting this edit. Thank you. Wikimandia (talk) 01:12, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If it's easily fixed, then why don't you fix it? The file has not been changed since 2011. People giving you credit or not has nothing to do with SVGs being invalid. Please stop removing the template. Wikimandia (talk) 01:28, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you so much! Again, I love your work and always try to give you credit (for example: File:Boar's head argent erased.svg), but sometimes I forget or I don't know where an item originated. I will go through all my uploads and make sure they are attributed. You are a great asset to Wiki Commons. Wikimandia (talk) 02:28, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You currently appear to be participating in an edit war. Users are expected to collaborate with others, and once it is known that there is a disagreement should discuss the issues on the relevant talk page rather than repeatedly undoing other users’ contributions. If necessary you can ask for more input at Commons:Dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to ask for temporary page protection. If you continue to edit war, you may be blocked from editing – even if you are right about the content issue.
About the Hong Kong Flag
Thanks for your great contribution on the Hong Kong flag (1876~1959 variant). However, according to former Vice Colonial Secretary of Hong Kong Geoffrey Cadzow Hamilton's work, the flag with the "Businessmen from England trading with local Chinese" emblem actually have two versions, which used from 1871~1955 and 1955~1959. But in your current edits, it seems that you mixed up two versions, hope that my information can help you. Thanks!
Hi Sodacan, did you create the clarion/rest in file:Coat of Arms of Chester A. Arthur.svg? It just says it was created using elements created by you, but I wasn't sure if that also included the clarion. I couldn't find it any of your files but I want to give you credit and point to the right file. Thanks! Wikimandia (talk) 17:57, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Swedish coats arms
Hey!
Was wondering if you could upload a version of the (current) arms of the Swedish princes and princesses with a blank space for where the arms of the duchy would normally go?
@Re5x: I can do this for you. But I would rather that you ask me for the specific arms to upload instead. I don't like uploading a blank template. But if you insist.... Sodacan (talk) 03:25, 24 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If you created this file, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for deletion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it, such as a copyright issue. Please see Commons:But it's my own work! for a guide on how to address these issues.
Please remember to respond to and – if appropriate – contradict the arguments supporting deletion. Arguments which focus on the nominator will not affect the result of the nomination. Thank you!
Been looking through your work this summer/fall - great stuff, as always. It's always a joy to me to see what new flags or badges you upload! Portunes (talk) 13:05, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Texas Seals
Hey I saw your work, and I'm wondering if you could update the seals used by the State Government since it appears that currently a majority of the state government offices are now officially using seals based on this older design which is somewhat sad in the regards that it doesn't follow the design specified in our constitution due to it having a branch of Post Oak Leaves instead of Live Oak.
I see that at some point you uploaded the image of this SS badge for Henry IV. I have been unable to find what the significance of these letters meant to Henry IV or the Lancasters in general. Can you shed some light on this for me?
He escrito a Heralder pero lamentablemente está ocupado, él mismo me recomendó a escribirte a ti.
I have written to Heralder but unfortunately it is busy, he himself recommended me to write to you.
Te escribo para saber si puedes diseñar el escudo de armas de Albert en Queensland, Australia. Te envió el link a la imagen Escudo de Armas de Albert, carece de blasonamiento pero si tiene una descripción en ingles la cual es esta:
I am writing to know if you can design of the coat of arms of Albert en Queensland, Australia. You sent the link to the image, Coat of arms of Albert, it lacks blazoning but if it has a description which is this:
The shield displays a background of gold and green, depicting the close proximity of the Gold Coast with its beaches, and the Shire, with its lush forests and farmlands. The caducaeus, rod of Mercury, God of commerce, and the hammer for industry in general, lie between two heads alluding to the beef and dairy industries. The four bands in the chief symbolize the Shire's Strategic Plan, which when combined with the mural crown of civic authority, speak of the Council's commitment to the future welfare of the Shire.
The colours, black and gold, come from the Saxony arms of Prince Albert, after whom the Shire was named, and refer to industry (black) and resultant wealth (gold).
The kangaroo in the crest identifies the Shire as Australian, while the sugar canes allude to another local industry.
The two dogs commemorate the national origins of two men closely connected with the early history of the district. Captain Patrick Logan was from Berwickshire, Scotland, origin of the Border Collie. The German Shepherd honours Johann Heussler, from Hamburg in Germany.
Perdón por mi mal inglés.
Sorry for my bad english.
If you created this file, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for deletion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it, such as a copyright issue. Please see Commons:But it's my own work! for a guide on how to address these issues.
Please remember to respond to and – if appropriate – contradict the arguments supporting deletion. Arguments which focus on the nominator will not affect the result of the nomination. Thank you!
I really don't think there's reason to regard the standard colours as "modern colours" taking effect only after 2017. Before the standard was announced, there was simply no standard and any shade of red could of course be used. From what I've read, the standard colour values were picked by comparing samples with actual historical cloth flags, so in all likelihood the new standard should actually be a better match for the historical flags. #ED1C24 was surely only a randomly chosen RGB value that didn't correspond to the actual dyes available centuries ago. (Also pinging User:Illegitimate Barrister, who made corresponding edits to the enwiki article.) --Paul_012 (talk) 13:34, 15 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Sodacan,
Michael Mustafin uploaded this file last year. It very much looks like the lion you used in File:Arms of the Dutch Republic.svg. I think the description of this file needs to be changed to reflect this. I'm not entirely into what. It probably is a copy of yet another file. --Vera(talk)11:31, 29 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I really like what you do !
your drawing skills are the best :) continue like that !
Your artwork is amazing. Thank you for adapting so many of these old heraldic artworks to new versions which are clean, digital, and have free copyright licensing. Blue Rasberry (talk)15:02, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Seychelles colonial flags
Flag of Seychelles from 1903-1961. Badge designed by Major-General Charles George Gordon. Prior to 1903, Seychelles was administered as a dependency of Mauritius
Flag of Seychelles from 1961-1976. Badge designed by Mrs. Alec McEwen of Toronto, Canada
Can we please replace this old template of the colonial flag for a new SVG models of a Wikimedia version of theses flags please as currently they are in the wrong format and need to be more detailed flags. These images have been taken from another site and may not be entirely accurate as a result. (2A02:C7F:5621:2A00:BDF3:3671:F51B:B33811:46, 20 October 2018 (UTC))[reply]
Hi mate. I was wondering if you have any sources or documents saved regarding the years of use for the two flags of Hong Kong that you created. I have been trying to pin-point the exact years of use and the only source I can find is FOTW, and they are not as helpful as I'd wish them to be. It is also confusing because they have the two badges the other way around, where File:Flag of Hong Kong (1955–1959).svg came first and then was later revised to File:Flag of Hong Kong (1876–1941 and 1945–1955).svg. I have tried to search but can't seem find anything else. Thanks. Fry1989eh?17:07, 29 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hi once more. You were so kind to share that PDF and to clear up that issue for me, I think I should share something with you in return. The State Library of South Australia has a wonderful catalogue of colonial badges that may help you in the future. You may already have these drawings saved somewhere, but in case you don't, here they are. https://collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/find/flagFry1989eh?17:56, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Fry1989: , Thank you! I do not actually have these, but they are on my list of todos. Sorry I am not able to complete them yet. But they are coming soon! Sodacan (talk) 20:45, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No problem, and of course I didn't mean to rush you. Everyone has real lives, and you have an especially high request list. I just didn't know whether you had those historical drawings or not. Some other websites have them as well but they are usually lower resolution and/or watermarked. As a side note, I am creating a thorough record for all the British colonies and their flags. Once I am done, I will transfer it onto Historical flags of the British Empire, as the current version is sorely lacking. This way we can also keep track of flags we do and don't have. Thanks again :)Fry1989eh?21:14, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hello,Sodacan. Can you make the emblem of Togo. Theres one vector version but it is horrible. The blazon is:
Crest:
Two standards with two National Flags (two on each side) and a ribbon argent with the National Motto.
Blazon:
A shield or with the letters RT (République Togolaise) sable.
Supporters:
Two lions rampant gules each of them holding an arrow in dexter hand and a bow in sinister hand sable.
Motto:
Travail, Liberté, Patrie
"Work, Liberty, Fatherland"
Other elements:
An emblem is placed on an oblong argent bordure vert.
An example is in:
https://www.republicoftogo.com/Toutes-les-rubriques/Medias/A-quelles-armoiries-se-vouer — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.50.33.151 (talk) 16:10, 14 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Zer? 20:10 23 ene 2015 (UTC)
,
Hi, This revision of the Lancashire Rose image apparently has a quite serious error (if you care about that sort if thing). It seems to be upside down which I've read is the Yorkshire way not the correct way :-) Hopefully you can fix reasonable soon otherwise I'll try to do something myself.--Trappedinburnley (talk) 17:48, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
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Done; Have India still to do. But it's just the different crown right? heraldically they are the same crown (Tudor and Imperial). --Sodacan (talk) 15:44, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
Hello! Can you help me? Can you make a new version with only crowns? No sheild, only the crowns please!--Bruno Rosta (talk) 17:29, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
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? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kingdom of Baustralia (talk • contribs) 00:52, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
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Flag of Seychelles from 1903-1961. Badge designed by Major-General Charles George Gordon. Prior to 1903, Seychelles was administered as a dependency of Mauritius
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