View source for Talk:BSicon/Renaming/Archive 2

{{Talkarchive|Talk:BSicon/Renaming}}

== Latest awful name ==

''moved from [[User talk:Useddenim]]''

{{bs-q|ueTurmBHFAu}}, should be emTBHFACCu. [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 21:46, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
:I had suggested <code>(<span style="color:blue;"><b>umTBHFACCxu</b></span>)</code>, parsed as follows:
:*'''u''' = primary line is light rail/metro
:*'''m''' = mixed light & heavy rail
:*'''TBHF''' = junction station
:*'''ACC''' = handicapped accessible
:*'''x''' = facility (not lines) out-of-use
:*'''u''' = primary line passes under
:but the <nowiki>{{Rename}}</nowiki> seems to have been wiped out by the move to Commons. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim#top|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 22:47, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
:: {{BS-q|uemTHSTACCu}} see {{BS-q|ueTHSTu}} Regards [[User:Axpde|<span style="color:#0000ff;">'''a'''<small>&times;</small>'''p'''<small><sub>de</sub></small></span>]][[User Talk:Axpde|<span style="color:#ff0000;"><small><sup>Hello!</sup></small></span>]] 00:49, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

:::OK, but how do we distinguish between the following?
:::{|
| {{BS-overlap|umKRZu|lACC}} || <code>(<span style="color:blue;"><b>umTBHFACCu</b></span>)</code>
|-
| {{BS-overlap|uemTHSTACCu|}} || <code>(<span style="color:blue;"><b>uemTHSTACCu</b></span>)</code>
|-
| {{BS-overlap|uemKRZu|lACC}} ||  name? ('''e''' = second line out-of-use? as in {{BS-q|uemKRZu}})
|}
::: [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim#top|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 04:01, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
:::: <code>(<span style="color:blue;"><b>umTBHFACCxu</b></span>)</code>: the "main" feature here is the station, details of the crossing line become suffixes, as in {{bs-q|tTBHFx}}. [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 04:27, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
::::: Yep. Even better comparable: {{BS-q|uTBHFxu}} with the bigger bridge! [[User:Axpde|<span style="color:#0000ff;">'''a'''<small>&times;</small>'''p'''<small><sub>de</sub></small></span>]][[User Talk:Axpde|<span style="color:#ff0000;"><small><sup>Hello!</sup></small></span>]] 13:30, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

== 90° LUECKEs ==

{{bsq|LUECKErf}} {{bsq|LUECKErg}} {{bsq|LUECKElf}} {{bsq|LUECKElg}} {{bsq|exLUECKErf}} {{bsq|exLUECKErg}} {{bsq|exLUECKElf}} {{bsq|exLUECKElg}}
Hi guys, some more icons for you. They're only used on the en.wp curves page and [[:en:Template:Birmingham and Derby Junction Railway]]. -''[[User:Mattbuck|mattbuck]]'' <small>([[User talk:Mattbuck|Talk]])</small> 05:40, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

:I’m greatly surprised you took yourself to the trouble to create these icons without checking 1st [[:Category:Icons for railway descriptions/luecke]], where you’d found them done and ready to use since Jan 2010: {{bsq|LSTRrf}} {{bsq|LSTRrg}} {{bsq|LSTRlf}} {{bsq|LSTRlg}} {{bsq|exLSTRrf}} {{bsq|exLSTRrg}} {{bsq|exLSTRlf}} {{bsq|exLSTRlg}} All these have arguable better naming, better SVG and some are widely used in many projects, including wp:en. -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] 13:10, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

::Well bollocks. I checked the en.wp turns page and they weren't there.... I hate en.wp. -''[[User:Mattbuck|mattbuck]]'' <small>([[User talk:Mattbuck|Talk]])</small> 13:26, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
:::All deleted. -''[[User:Mattbuck|mattbuck]]'' <small>([[User talk:Mattbuck|Talk]])</small> 13:30, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
::::Personally I ignore [[:en:Wikipedia:Route diagram template/Catalog of pictograms]] and its subpages, because they take ''way'' too long to load (and are often incomplete), and so I just go straight to [[:Category:Icons for railway descriptions]] and poke about in the subcategories of that. Sometimes though, it can take a while because an icon which could fit into two of these sub-cats is only in one of them (I dual tried dual-categorising in a few cases, but gave up after I was constantly reverted with the edit summary "one special category is enough"). So long as the uploader remembers to put at least one cat on the icon, you should be able to find what you need eventually. --[[User:Redrose64|Redrose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 23:21, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
:::::''Hey!'' I do what I can to keep them up to date. You ''have'' to admit they're a lot more complete than they were a year ago. (Also, it would help if icon uploaders would also put their new creations onto the appropriate pages themselves.) And if you think a page is too big, go ahead and split it.  [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 04:59, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

::::::Useddenim, the [[:en:Wikipedia:Route diagram template/Catalog of pictograms]] as it is after your groundbreaking revamping is great and it is a joy to be able to use it and contribute to its betterment. -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] 12:40, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
:::::::I concur, it looks much nicer now. That said, I don't suppose someone can make me an ex tunnel entrance/exit on a diagonal... -''[[User:Mattbuck|mattbuck]]'' <small>([[User talk:Mattbuck|Talk]])</small> 13:13, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
::::::::@Tuválkin: Please don't lay it on ''too'' thick!<br>@mattbuck: did you mean the remainder of the set of {{bsq|tSTR2+4e}} and {{bsq|utSTR3+1a}}? [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 13:37, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::Those will do nicely, thanks. I'm no good at creating new icons, but I can edit existing ones to different colours and orientations easily enough :). -''[[User:Mattbuck|mattbuck]]'' <small>([[User talk:Mattbuck|Talk]])</small> 15:58, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
::::::::::{{Done}}. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 05:20, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

:Thanks for all your help guys, I now have a ridiculously huge map using all sorts of weird and wonderful icons. [[:en:Template:Cross_Country_Route]]. -''[[User:Mattbuck|mattbuck]]'' <small>([[User talk:Mattbuck|Talk]])</small> 05:05, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

== Half crossing ==

:''[[User talk:Axpde#Half crossing]]''
Just so you know, I uploaded some half-versions of {{bsq|KRZo}}. I wanted to upload as KRZol/KRZor, but those were taken, so ended up as KRZoxl/KRZoxr. Please feel free to rename them as you see fit. They should only be in use at [[:en:Template:Crystal Palace Line]]. -''[[User:Mattbuck|mattbuck]]'' <small>([[User talk:Mattbuck|Talk]])</small> 04:02, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
:Oh, and the en.wp junctions page. -''[[User:Mattbuck|mattbuck]]'' <small>([[User talk:Mattbuck|Talk]])</small> 05:36, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
:{|
! Current !! New !! Current !! New
|-
|
* {{bsq|KRZoxl}}
| → {{bsq|KRZ-Ro}} || {{bsq|KRZoxr}} || → {{bsq|KRZ-Lo}}
|-
|
* {{bsq|mKRZoxl}}
| → {{bsq|mKRZ-Ro}} || {{bsq|mKRZoxr}} || → {{bsq|mKRZ-Lo}}
|-
|
* {{bsq|umKRZoxl}}
| → {{bsq|umKRZ-Ro}} || {{bsq|umKRZoxr}} || → {{bsq|umKRZ-Lo}}
|}
::I think KRZ-L/R is the perfect root to rename those to. (That pair of suffixes is turning out to be used a lot more than I originally expected!) [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 07:39, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
::Fixed the ordering, these two suffixes are "part of" the root (just like K-), as you could have lowercase l/r in them (i.e. as "halves" of crossings with ramps). [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 21:37, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

== Water path and water crossing ==

''Moved from [[User talk:Axpde/Archive 3#Icon renaming]]''

Before I go overboard, some input please...
{|class="wikitable"
|-
! Present name || icon || WASSER~ !! <strike>WSTR~</strike> !!colspan=2| Corresponding rail icon
|-
|WASSER+r BRÜCKEc2||[[File:BSicon WASSER2u+r.svg|20px]]||WASSER2+ru||<strike>WSTR2+ru</strike>||{{BS-overlap|ÜWl|ÜWt2}}||<strike>ÜWlu</strike> STR2+ru
|-
|WASSERÜW+l||[[File:BSicon WASSERr+1.svg|20px]]||WASSERr+1||<strike>WSTRr+1</strike>||[[File:BSicon STRr+1.svg|20px]]||<strike>ÜW+l</strike> STRr+1
|-
|tWASSERÜW+l||[[File:BSicon tWASSERr+1.svg|20px]]||tWASSERr+1||<strike>tWSTRr+1</strike>||[[File:BSicon tSTRr+1.svg|20px]]||<strike>tÜW+l</strike> tSTRr+1
|-
|WASSERÜW+r||[[File:BSicon WASSERl+4.svg|20px]]||WASSERl+4||<strike>WSTRl+4</strike>||[[File:BSicon STRl+4.svg|20px]]||<strike>ÜW+r</strike> STRl+4
|-
|WASSERÜWr||[[File:BSicon WASSER3+l.svg|20px]]||WASSER3+l||<strike>WSTR3+l</strike>||[[File:BSicon STR3+l.svg|20px]]||<strike>ÜWr</strike> STR3+l
|-
|tWASSERÜWr||[[File:BSicon tWASSER3+l.svg|20px]]||tWASSER3+l||<strike>tWSTR3+l</strike>||[[File:BSicon tSTR3+l.svg|20px]]||<strike>tÜWr</strike> tSTR3+l
|-
|}
My preference would be to use '''WSTR''' as the base (less typing, and most roots are only 3 characters), but I'll accept whatever consensus comes about. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 21:59, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
:Nobody seemed to care, but I finally decided on '''WASSER~''', since ''WSTR~'' implies a water feature in conjunction with a stretch of railway track. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 14:28, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
:: Oops, somehow I missed that topic :-}
:: But your conclusion is ok, I alread thought about creating a WSTR icon ... let's say a track running through marsh or alike ... [[User:Axpde|<span style="color:#0000ff;">'''a'''<small>&times;</small>'''p'''<small><sub>de</sub></small></span>]][[User Talk:Axpde|<span style="color:#ff0000;"><small><sup>Hello!</sup></small></span>]] 18:54, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

:::Somethging like the “Water features” at [[:en:Wikipedia:Route_diagram_template/Catalog_of_pictograms/trails]]? --[[User:Tuvalkin|Tuvalkin]] ([[User talk:Tuvalkin|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 23:47, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

== Bad icons ==

:''moved from [[:en:Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template/Catalog of pictograms/stations]]''

<strike><code>(<span style="color:blue;"><b>FLYe</b></span>)</code></strike> {{BS-q|fAKRZo2}} {{BS-q|fAKRZu2}} {{BS-q|fOBJrl}} {{BS-q|uLKRZuw}} <strike><code>(<span style="color:blue;"><b>ueTurmBHFAu</b></span>)</code></strike>
{{BS-q|uLABZrf2}} {{BS-q|ueLABZlf}} {{BS-q|ueLABZlg}} {{BS-q|ueLABZrf}} {{BS-q|uexLABZlg}} {{BS-q|uexLABZrf}}
{{BS-q|uWSPLlrg}} {{BS-q|uexWWP}} {{BS-q|uexWWPLl}} {{BS-q|uexWWPLr}} {{BS-q|uexWWPr}}
{{BS-q|uhAKRZoa}} {{BS-q|uhAKRZoe}} {{BS-q|uexhAKRZoe}}		 {{BS-q|euABZrg}} {{BS-q|uxABZgl+l}} {{BS-q|uxJUNCld-uSTRlf}}
'''hROOTo''' seems redundant to me…
<strike>{{BS-q|uBS2clu-ELEV}}</strike> <strike>{{BS-q|uBS2cru-ELEV}}</strike> <strike>{{BS-q|uBS2lf-ELEV}}</strike> <strike>{{BS-q|uBS2lg-ELEV}}</strike> <strike>{{BS-q|uBS2rf-ELEV}}</strike> <strike>{{BS-q|uBS2rg-ELEV}}</strike>
<strike>{{BS-q|uÜWo+l-ELEV}}</strike> <strike>{{BS-q|uÜWo+r-ELEV}}</strike> <strike>{{BS-q|uÜWol-ELEV}}</strike> <strike>{{BS-q|uÜWor-ELEV}}</strike> <strike>{{BS-q|uÜWu+r-ELEV}}</strike> <strike>{{BS-q|uÜWul-ELEV}}</strike>
{{BS-q|uAKRZu-ELEV}} <strike><code>(<span style="color:blue;"><b>uexHST-ELEVe</b></span>)</code></strike>
all of these should be '''hROOT''' instead of '''ROOT-ELEV'''.
Here's the 37 that I found (although the <strike>two</strike> <u>ones</u> with the strike-through have been <u>renamed or</u> replaced and are tagged for deletion). [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|talk]]) 21:40, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
<hr>[[User:Train2104|Train2104]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Train2104|talk]]) found a few more:
<strike><code>(<span style="color:blue;"><b>ABZvlr</b></span>)</code></strike>
{{BS-q|FILL}}
<strike><code>(<span style="color:blue;"><b>StationOpen norail</b></span>)</code></strike>
{{BS-q|exvABZrf}}
<strike><code>(<span style="color:blue;"><b>exvKBFe-BHF</b></span>)</code></strike>
<strike><code>(<span style="color:blue;"><b>exvSTRnl</b></span>)</code></strike>
{{BS-q|ueLock3}}
{{BS-q|ueLock5}}
<strike><code>(<span style="color:blue;"><b>ueTurmBHFAu</b></span>)</code></strike>
{{BS-q|vBHF-KBFa}}

* Deleted icons have been <strike>struck</strike>. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|talk]]) 22:55, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

:*{{bs-q|exvABZrf}} is a wrong name for {{bs-q|exvABZgr-STR}}.
:*{{BS-q|vBHF-KBFa}} is a wrong name for {{BS-q|vBHF-KBHFa}}
:*{{bs-q|euABZrg}}  should be '''uemABZrg'''.
:*{{bs-q|fAKRZo2}} should be '''fAKRZ-UKo'''
:*{{bs-q|fAKRZu2}} should be '''fAKRZ-UKu'''
:*{{BS-q|uWSPLlrg}} looks like it should be '''uexWSLg+lr'''
:*{{bs-q|uxJUNCld-uSTRlf}} is NOT a rail icon ({{bs-q|uxABZld}} already exists), but a waterway icon that MUST stay filled. Maybe '''uxJUNC_ld''' would avoid disturbing the pattern, orwe could transpose the ABZ: '''uxJUNCgl+xl'''.  :*{{BS-q|uexWWPLl}} {{BS-q|uexWWPLr}} should be reversed.
:*{{bs-q|uLKRZuw}} seems correctly based on {{bs-q|uKRZuw}} (except for the wrong bridge, maybe it's a waterway/railway icon diff?), and {{bs-q|uxABZgl+l}} is from {{bs-q|ABZgl+l}}->{{bs-q|xABZgl+l}}->{{bs-q|uxABZgl+l}}; {{bs-q|fOBJrl}} is a correct footpath icon combining {{bs-q|fOBJr}} and {{bs-q|fOBJl}} (which are, however, seemingly incorrect)
:*{{BS-q|uhAKRZoa}}, {{BS-q|uhAKRZoe}}, {{BS-q|uexhAKRZoe}}, {{BS-q|ueLock3}} and {{BS-q|ueLock5}} all look fine as well and conform to naming conventions AFAICT
:**there may be a need to revisit the use of x/e/ex/ue/ux/uex in road crossings as they are utterly inconsistent with the KRZo/u templates.
:*{{BS-q|uexWWP}} {{BS-q|uexWWPr}} are fine too AFAICT, as are the LABZ series, which I admit looks really odd (and I cannot quite tell how the prefixes interact). I think the issue is due to (a) there being no mixed L- icons and (b) the waterway series uses the circles with a specific meaning that makes mixed icons necessary.
:[[User:Circeus|Circéus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|talk]]) 04:02, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

::Meanwhile I marked all these to be moved to Commons, where they can be discussed and renamed. --[[User:Tuvalkin|Tuvalkin]] ([[User talk:Tuvalkin|talk]]) 01:51, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
:::What's the point? Shouldn't we move ''correctly named icons'' so that other Wikis won't start using them and complicate things when we actually rename them?? [[User:Circeus|Circéus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|talk]]) 03:08, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
::::I thought of that, too, but on the other hand
::::*other wikis could gain from some of these icons even before correct renaming, and 
::::*editors in other wikis could give interesting insights about name-correcting options.
::::--[[User:Tuvalkin|Tuvalkin]] ([[User talk:Tuvalkin|talk]]) 03:20, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::What is there to discuss on commons? Let's break it down:
:::::*2 icons are incorrectly named duplicate and will be deleted
:::::*3 icons have indisputably correct replacement names
:::::*4 icons are indisputably correctly named waterway icons
:::::*4 icons are waterway icons with dubious names that are improvable, but ''en.wp is the '''sole wiki''' to use the waterway icons''
:::::*8 icons are indisputably correctly named rail or footpath icons.
:::::So I repeat, where's the rush? [[User:Circeus|Circéus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|talk]]) 03:50, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

== Prefixes and suffixes, again ==

# Add <code><small>ROOT</small>'''CC'''</code> (as in {{bsq|uBHFCC}} to the list—but ''don't'' ask me to explain the meaning or derivation.
#: That is "'''C'''ut and '''C'''over" and I think it is AWFUL (see below). [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 13:39, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
#This week's winner of "the worst new BS icon name" is: {{bsq|uextKDSTao}}. Anyone wanna take a stab at a better name? (That '''ao''' suffix is what really does it for me.) Personally, I'd just like to take it out and shoot it, and replace its [[Special:GlobalUsage/BSicon_uextKDSTao.svg|usage]]  with an overlay.
:*Runners-up are {{bsq|STR2uh+4}} and {{bsq|hv-STR3o2+4}}.
:[[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 05:28, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
:: Not to forget {{BS-q|hv-STR3o2+4}}, {{BS-q|hvSTR3-}}, {{BS-q|hv-STR+1}} and {{BS-q|hvSTR-L+1-}}<sup>[renamed]</sup>! [[User:Axpde|<span style="color:#0000ff;">'''a'''<small>&times;</small>'''p'''<small><sub>de</sub></small></span>]][[User Talk:Axpde|<span style="color:#ff0000;"><small><sup>Hello!</sup></small></span>]] 09:33, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

:::And I thought you at least were keeping an eye on my [[User:Circeus/BSicon_renaming/Stations/Regular|proposal]]? I thought that was a pretty clever and intuitive approach to getting rid of C/C and the awkward +TUNNEL compounds (i.e. by allowing u/o with tunnels and elevated tracks: "Feature above/below ground" or "above/at ground level"). Apparently the correct name for {{bsq|uextKDSTao}} is {{bsq|uexKDSTCa}} (following {{bsq|KBHFCa}}) which is hardly an improvement. [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 13:39, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
::::Meanwhile renamed {{BS-q|uexKDSTCCe}}. In hindsight, this discussion is funny. -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] 04:43, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

::::Useddenim: You can check [http://toolserver.org/~daniel/WikiSense/Gallery.php?wikifam=commons.wikimedia.org&img_user_text=Tuvalkin here] for worst new BS icon names — and if you wanna just point and laugh instead of proposing better names, it will be okay, really. As for «take it out and shoot it» — are you suggesting that an icon for which you cannot come up with a good name for has no right to exist? The suggestion of «replace»ing« its usage with an overlay» poses a problem in the case of {{bsq|uexKDSTCCe}}<sup>renamed</sup> — what exactly would you be overlaying on {{bsq|uextKDSTa}}? Where’s the ''legende'' icon for an '''opening''' tunnel portal at the '''bottom'''? -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] 00:33, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

:::::{{bsq|PORTALf}}. And no, I'm not suggesting that it shouldn't exist, I was engaging in hyperbole (although I believe that {{Ult|Axpde}} had suggested some time ago that there wasn't any real need for icons that were used in only a single instance, especially if they could be created easily with a combination of common icons). I was just hoping that people will try and follow some sort of consistency when adding new icons.<br>So {{bsq|uexKDSTCCe}}<sup>renamed</sup> = {{bsq|uexKDSTa}} + {{bsq|PORTALf}}: {{BS-o|uexKDSTa|PORTALf}} [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 01:14, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
{| {{Railway line header}}
|{{BS-header|Example}}
{{BS-table|0}}
{{BS2|tBHFea|uexKDSTCCe|PX=60px}}
{{BS2|tSTR|uextSTRl|PX=60px}}
{{BS2|tBHFea|uexKDSTa|O2=PORTALf|PX=60px}}
{{BS2|tSTRr|uextSTRl|PX=60px}}
|}
|}
|}
::::::I bed to differ here: 1) The PORTAL icons are ''hardly'' "common icons" for the purpose of your argument 2) It has been repeatedly acknowledged that not all projects have built-in overlay capabilities and we are constantly making full set of icons that are hardly all needed (the full set of half ÜST icons come to mind: the original ones were hardly sued to begin with!) and 3) the design tweaks of {{bsq|uexKDSTCCe}}<sup>renamed</sup> makes it clearly superior to an overlap, as PORTAL is meant for a different use, and there are limits to how many portals there can be! [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 03:35, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

::::::Oh, {{BS-q|PORTALf}}, I should have looked more carefully. Still, when I created the icon I saw that overlaping those two doesnt work the way I wanted, as {{BS-q|PORTALf}} is on the icom edge, and "<code>CC</code>" station icons are slightly inside. It is not a meaningful difference for most facilities, but when I created it I mean to use it along a {{BS-q|BHFCC}} icon side-by-side, and they would only look good if the portals were identically positioned. (See the difference in bigger size here →) -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] 06:01, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

<br clear=all>

== [[:File:BSicon DSTRte.svg]] ==

I was just looking at a (text) list of recently uploaded icons, and {{BS-q|DSTRte}} jumped out at me, initially because it appeared to be mis-categorized. I thought it was a depôt with an extension to the right ('''DST'''''R'' te) rather than a diagonal stretch of track (''D'' '''STR'''te). Perhaps a '''D''' prefix isn't the best idea… we may have to reconsider a '''DAG''' root (or something else) as a catch-all for the diagonals that don't fit anywhere else. (See [[#Yet more icon renaming...|''Yet more icon renaming...'' above]].) [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 15:18, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

:This kind of things will always potentially happend unless we have '''both''' a fixed number of letters for the root (like three), and have uppercase modifiers always appended to the same side. In this case it would be either '''DST'''R & '''STR'''D or  R'''DST''' & D'''STR'''. --[[User:Tuvalkin|Tuvalkin]] ([[User talk:Tuvalkin|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 15:44, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

:I must admit I did not see that one coming at all.Maybe using the same "hack" I applied for T-junctions ("ABZT", introduced for some stations, but needed for seamless integration of canal icons) of suffixing it (i.e. it becomes "STRD" instead) would work? Of course I didn't expect that icons would be introduced actually applying the proposal before it even saw proper discussion! [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 17:21, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

::Suffixing instead seems to be a reasonable hack. --[[User:Tuvalkin|Tuvalkin]] ([[User talk:Tuvalkin|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 18:27, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
::On second thought, maybe I should clarify: should this be that D- is used for all other roots, but -D for STR or is made -D for all roots (I'm also using it for KRZ and ABZ)? [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 18:45, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

:::Couldn't sleep tonight, so I changed it: {{BS-q|TNL2+4e}}. (Also {{BS-q|uTNL3+1a}}.) [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 05:36, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

== <s>{{bsq|xBHF}}</s>, {{bsq|umKRZoxr}}, {{bsq|umKRZoxl}}, {{bsq|KRZoxr}}, {{bsq|KRZoxl}}, {{bsq|mKRZoxr}}, {{bsq|mKRZoxl}} ==

''moved from [[User talk:Axpde]]''

What exactly is obsolete about these? The first of these is in use, and while afaik the second one has never been used it's part of a set of such icons I created for whatever that line is between Beckenham Junction and Crystal Palace. -''[[User:Mattbuck|mattbuck]]'' <small>([[User talk:Mattbuck|Talk]])</small> 19:28, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
: If the track is off use the station can't be in use, whether this icon is in use or not.
: The suffixes of those icons you created are wrong - and I have no clue what they're supposed to be ... [[User:Axpde|<span style="color:#0000ff;">'''a'''<small>&times;</small>'''p'''<small><sub>de</sub></small></span>]][[User Talk:Axpde|<span style="color:#ff0000;"><small><sup>Hello!</sup></small></span>]] 19:47, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
::Very sorry, I tried my best with those suffixes, but I don't speak German, so I figure create the icon and others can work out how to rename it. Wrong suffixes should mean rename, not obsolete.
::As for the station, I disagree - there are certainly circumstances where there can be an x-station: for instance those semi-closed ones where there's still a bus service doing the same route (rail-replacement) but the actual track is overgrown. I think I also used it where there's a railway museum of some sort in the grounds, perhaps with very small section of operational railway. -''[[User:Mattbuck|mattbuck]]'' <small>([[User talk:Mattbuck|Talk]])</small> 22:44, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
::Oh, and [[:en:Template:Crystal Palace Line]] is where those half-bridges are used. -''[[User:Mattbuck|mattbuck]]'' <small>([[User talk:Mattbuck|Talk]])</small> 22:47, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
::: It's even hard to name all those BSicons if one's able to speak German ;-)
::: I categorized them as obsolete to avoid them being used before named properly. But you have to tell me what your icons shall depict: a straight track and the track across ends inside a tunnel??
::: There are other options to depict a railroad museum, e.g. [[:File:BSicon MBAHN.svg]]. And if the track is out of use, the ''station'' is off use as well, even if there's a bus service in front of the station! [[User:Axpde|<span style="color:#0000ff;">'''a'''<small>&times;</small>'''p'''<small><sub>de</sub></small></span>]][[User Talk:Axpde|<span style="color:#ff0000;"><small><sup>Hello!</sup></small></span>]] 22:52, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
::::Well, regarding the stations, they are technically still open - it's a form of closure by stealth. You can buy tickets to and from them, but can't catch a train there. I think Watford West was a recent example. 
::::The icons there were simply for the linked map, because just outside Beckenham Junction there are three lines crossing a single line via a bridge, definitely not a tunnel, but they are distinct columns on the diagram, so I needed a half-bridge icon. I accept it's not a perfect solution, but I couldn't see a better way to accommodate that track layout. I suppose they could also be used for Wile-e-Coyote-style tunnel entrances in cliffs that are just painted on. -''[[User:Mattbuck|mattbuck]]'' <small>([[User talk:Mattbuck|Talk]])</small> 23:11, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
:Note since this has been moved to the renaming zone, the xBHF name is completely correct, the argument here is simply whether such an icon should exist at all. -''[[User:Mattbuck|mattbuck]]'' <small>([[User talk:Mattbuck|Talk]])</small> 01:22, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
::Also added all the rest of that style of icons. -''[[User:Mattbuck|mattbuck]]'' <small>([[User talk:Mattbuck|Talk]])</small> 01:24, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
:::Don't forget to add them to the [[:en:Wikipedia:Route diagram template/Catalog of pictograms|Catalog of pictograms]]… [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 04:32, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
FWIW, all these half-crossing icons are -L/-R under my proposal (a suffix Tuvalkin has been apploes to similar things in his generic-road set, I believe). [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 04:00, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

:I was about to chip in to say that very same: those <code>''ROOT''ox''l''</code>/<code>''r''</code> icons are railcross versions of the old <code>VIADUKT</code> root, meanwhile changed to <code>BRÜCKE</code> with -<code>L</code> or -<code>R</code>. (My use of it in the [[:Category:Icons_for_motorway_descriptions/generic|generic roads icons]] being suplemental.)

:If logically analysed, the name family <code>KRZox''l''</code>/<code>''r''</code> '''would mean''' a regular crossing where the lower, horizontal line is half in use and half disused, ''i.e.'' something like {{BS-q|ENDExl}} over {{BS-q|BRÜCKE1}}. Which is possible (though makes for unclear diagramming), so here’s one more reason '''not''' to use this kind of names for half bridges.

:-- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] 18:33, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

I also need to say that it is not a good idea to lump different discussion matters in the same section. Obviously {{bsq|xBHF}} is one thing, and the half bridges are another, and there no advantage in discussing them together. -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] 18:33, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
: Agreed, xBHF is a topic on its own.
: Conc. {{BS-q|KRZoxl}}, this should be a {{BS-q|KRZol}} with the connection off use! [[User:Axpde|<span style="color:#0000ff;">'''a'''<small>&times;</small>'''p'''<small><sub>de</sub></small></span>]][[User Talk:Axpde|<span style="color:#ff0000;"><small><sup>Hello!</sup></small></span>]] 16:24, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

::Ah, yes! Much more interesting and useful! -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] 17:56, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
::''See below.'' [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 14:54, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

:OK, so who will actually bite the bullet and give these a name? -''[[User:Mattbuck|mattbuck]]'' <small>([[User talk:Mattbuck|Talk]])</small> 18:22, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

:Lemme try:
:*{{BS-q|KRZoxr}}<tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;</tt> → {{BS-q|KRZo-L}}
:*{{BS-q|KRZoxl}}<tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;</tt> → {{BS-q|KRZo-R}}
:*{{BS-q|mKRZoxr}}<tt>&nbsp;</tt> → {{BS-q|mKRZo-L}}
:*{{BS-q|mKRZoxl}}<tt>&nbsp;</tt> → {{BS-q|mKRZo-R}}
:*{{BS-q|umKRZoxr}} → {{BS-q|umKRZo-L}}
:*{{BS-q|umKRZoxl}} → {{BS-q|umKRZo-R}}
::{{Done}}. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 21:04, 12 January 2012‎ (UTC)
:The "<tt>o</tt>" is redundant, as it is always '''over''' (much in the same way that any <tt>KRZo</tt> is also a <tt>KRZuq</tt>), and it could be dropped, I think. What it does with the "<tt>o</tt>" in it is to neatly alphabetize after {{BS-q|KRZo}} ''et&nbsp;c.''. -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] 19:37, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
::Given that I wouldn't consider "KRZoq" a veru good base for the horizontal forms, I think keeping the o helps more with continuity. Plus I want to keep the option open to use KRZ-L for the "flat-T" junctions (currently ABZT, but I can,t say I,m thrilled by that approach, KRZ with -L/R is far more elegant), and if there's a bridge in the icon, there ought to be a -o/u somewhere anyway IMO. [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 06:55, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
::: Well, what type of icon do you expect when dropping the "o" in {{BS-q|KRZo-L}}? IMHO it'd be exactly your T-type junction! [[User:Axpde|<span style="color:#0000ff;">'''a'''<small>&times;</small>'''p'''<small><sub>de</sub></small></span>]][[User Talk:Axpde|<span style="color:#ff0000;"><small><sup>Hello!</sup></small></span>]] 13:58, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
::::I think you misunderstand me. I'm saying these icons  should keep the -o (i.e. '''I disagree''' with Tuvalkin) so that KRZ-L/R can be used for stuff like {{bs-q|KRZBHFl}} (becomes KRZ-R+BHF), {{bs-q|uFEEDERl}} (becomes ueKRZ-Ls) and {{bs-q|fTEEr|alt=fJCTl}} (becoming fKRZ-L). [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 07:08, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
:::::Well, then you dont disagree with me, as I said that, even though the "<code>o</code>" is redundant, it is better to keep it — and you guys added good additional reasons why it should be kept. So, it may not be redundant after all, but I was right to put the "<code>o</code>" anyway, even while supposing it redundant. -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] 05:06, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

== {{bsq|xBHF}} ==
This was previously discussed at [[en:Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template/Catalog of pictograms/stations#File:BSicon xBHF.svg]]. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 14:54, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

<blockquote style="border: 1px solid silver">
Could someone please explain, how this could work, a station in use on a track that's out of use?!?!?
That's simply impossible!! [[User:Axpde|<span style="color:#0000ff;">'''a'''<small>x</small>'''p'''<small><sub>de</sub></small></span>]][[User talk:Axpde|<span style="color:#ff0000;"><small><sup>Hello!</sup></small></span>]] 15:06, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
:Maybe it's impossible (a railway station which never had tracks was Hull Corporation Pier), a long-term bus replacement service might be running, however I think <tt><nowiki>{{BS4||exSTR|||O2=lHST|}}</nowiki></tt> would show what was wanted without the clutter of too many nonce-use specials.--[[User:SilasW|SilasW]] ([[User talk:SilasW|talk]]) 17:24, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

::The article uses this icon ([[en:Exe Valley Railway]], [[en:Devon Railway Centre]]) represent an abandoned station that has been revitalised as a railway museum. -- [[User:Sameboat|Sameboat - 同舟]] ([[User talk:Sameboat|talk]]) 22:43, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

::: So the station is ''not'' in use! The icon is wrong! [[User:Axpde|<span style="color:#0000ff;">'''a'''<small>x</small>'''p'''<small><sub>de</sub></small></span>]][[User talk:Axpde|<span style="color:#ff0000;"><small><sup>Hello!</sup></small></span>]] 19:18, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
</blockquote>
 
<blockquote style="border: 1px solid silver">
{|{{railway line header}}
{{BS-table}}
{{BS|exSTR|O1=lBHF||<nowiki>{{BS|exSTR|O1=lBHF}}</nowiki>}}
{{BS|exKBHFe|O1=lBHF||<nowiki>{{BS|exKBHFe|O1=lBHF}}</nowiki>}}
{{BS|exSTRq|O1=lBHF||<nowiki>{{BS|exSTRq|O1=lBHF}}</nowiki>}}
{{BS|uexSTR|O1=ulBHF||<nowiki>{{BS|uexSTR|O1=ulBHF}}</nowiki>}}
{{BS|uexSTRq|O1=ulBHF||<nowiki>{{BS|uexSTRq|O1=ulBHF}}</nowiki>}}
|}
|}
Would someone be able to produce the following?  A set of station/halt icons showing a station in red on top of a pink disused line, both vertical and horizontal?

There are some occasions when railway stations are being restored and have track running through them that terminates at the station boundaries.  These stations are being used by shunters, and act as bridgeheads for future line re-construction.  Example: [[en:Shillingstone railway station]].  Rather than using an overlay or a BHF to represent this, a set of dedicated icons would be useful.  [[User:DBailey635|David Bailey]] ([[User talk:DBailey635|talk]]) 11:53, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

: The discussion above of [[file:BSicon xBHF.svg|20px]] xBHF is exactly the icon you're asking for. But Axp doesn't quite acknowledge its usage. Anyway you can use the overlap parameter of BS# row template to substitute for the missing icons. -- [[User:Sameboat|Sameboat - 同舟]] ([[User talk:Sameboat|talk]]) 12:38, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

::Thanks.  xBHF is good, but that's only one icon.  Overlap doesn't always work in older browsers.  A full set of icons would be a nice addition... but as mentioned above, we'd probably need a set of guidelines for its usage. [[User:DBailey635|David Bailey]] ([[User talk:DBailey635|talk]]) 13:11, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

&#35;Sigh#

Once again: It's impossible to have an operating ''station'' if the track isn't operational. Please note, the red dot represents operational railroad tracks with train rollings on them, and not just the building with a service counter area!

Thus those icons are pure nonsense! And people get confused if you use those icons! [[User:Axpde|<span style="color:#0000ff;">'''a'''<small>x</small>'''p'''<small><sub>de</sub></small></span>]][[User talk:Axpde|<span style="color:#ff0000;"><small><sup>Hello!</sup></small></span>]] 21:47, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

:Actually I found a use for one. A station which has been turned in to a museum, and has a miniature ride-on railway. Seemed pointless to have a whole line red, but the station seemed reasonable. -''[[User:Mattbuck|mattbuck]]'' <small>([[User talk:Mattbuck|Talk]])</small> 22:53, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

:: I don't think making these set of xBHF icons would cause too much problem/harm especially to the German project. Alternatively, you may also refer to [[en:East Rail Line]] solution [[File:BSicon exKBHFa.svg|20px]][[File:BSicon lDAMPF.svg|20px]] ex(K)BHF | MBAHN , but I realize that it would arise the problem because in Britain MBAHN icon is largely ambiguous between intercity railway/heritage railway/railway museum. (While in other regions the [[File:BSicon LDER.svg|20px]] LDER can simply defeat the ambiguity.) If the restored station isn't open to civilian, I would suggest applying the [[File:BSicon lDST.svg|20px]] DST, but in David's case it still requires an exSTR to accomplish the intended icon, e.g. xDST. -- [[User:Sameboat|Sameboat - 同舟]] ([[User talk:Sameboat|talk]]) 04:41, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
</blockquote>

:For clarity, I shall repeat my comments from a different section: to me it seems perfectly possible for a station to be open but the line not to be. In some cases it could be used for railway museums or heritage railways which have VERY short bits of track which aren't worth the extra lines for ENDEs. Alternatively, they can be used for those stations which are suffering a closure by stealth - one can buy tickets to or from them, but no train stops there and the line is overgrown - instead there's a bus service the tickets are valid on. -''[[User:Mattbuck|mattbuck]]'' <small>([[User talk:Mattbuck|Talk]])</small> 18:25, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

== Diagonal crossing ==

Does anyone have any objection to renaming the (very) awkwardly-named {{bsq|ÜWolr+rl}} family to {{bsq|KRX}} ('''KR'''ossing in the shape of an '''X''')? [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 23:18, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

:{{agree}} -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] 01:28, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

:Will you also be renaming the variations on this theme (under/over/etc)? -''[[User:Mattbuck|mattbuck]]'' <small>([[User talk:Mattbuck|Talk]])</small> 01:28, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

::Yes: {{bs-q|KRX}} {{bs-q|ÜWolr+url|2=0}} {{bs-q|KRXo}} {{bs-q|ÜWolr+orl|2=0}} {{bs-q|KRXu}}, etc. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 04:32, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

== Missing and wrong designs ==

''moved from [[User talk:Useddenim]]''

While working on my renaming project it came to my attention that we do not have the {{bs-q|uGRENZE}} and  {{bs-q|utGRENZE}} icons. These currently redirect to the e- variant, but the base are supposed to have the circle pictogram found in {{bs-q|GRENZE}}. I do not know if the "correct" icons are hiding somewhere under a different name, however. [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 03:11, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

:About {{bs-q|GRENZE2}}, see also [[:Category talk:Icons for railway descriptions/experimental/borders|this]]. --[[User:Tuvalkin|Tuvalkin]] ([[User talk:Tuvalkin|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 09:51, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

== Parallel rail proposal ==
''Moved from [[User talk:Vunz]].''

I've been working on a new, all-encompassing BSicon naming scheme, and I'd appreciate some thought on a preliminary version of the [[User:Circeus/BSicon renaming/Parallel|naming scheme for parallel lines]]. The goal here is to narrow as much as possible the use of "combo" names and eliminate the dash as a prefix/suffix. [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 16:20, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

:My main question is, why would we want that? I agree that combo names can be long, but they're pretty easy to understand whereas your proposed naming scheme is rather difficult (i.m.o.) [[User:Vunz|Vunz]] ([[User talk:Vunz#top|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 08:39, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
::While not all the parallel line icons are a problem, there CERTAINLY are who are. Let's list issues I have (aside from my finding dashed names very inelegant):
::*The irregular curves are a messy system bordering on the incomprehensible.
:::- Which are the one you mean?
::*Dashed icon names conflict with the use of the dash as a connector.
:::- Where is the dash used as a connector?
::*Elimination of multi-letter suffixes like -r2l/-l2r is a key part of my proposal as a whole
:::- I don't like numbers in the suffixes either
::*There is no reason to keep icons like {{bsq|vBS2l|0}} taking up useful names in the BS2 root over things like {{bsq|uvSTRel|0}}.
:::- There is no reason to have icons like  {{bsq|uvSTRel|0}}, since you can achieve the same with two half width icons, but changing {{bsq|vBS2l|0}} to something else is fine.
::*The conceit of not using v- for icons "piled up" instead of squeezed side to side is a conter-intuitive disconnection between otherwise identical icons.
:::- I don't get what you're aiming at sorry.
::*Stuff like {{bs-q|vSTRr-xKRZ}} or {{bs-q|vKRZl-KRZr}} is '''nowhere''' near being what they ought to be if they actually were following the system started off with {{bsq|vSTR-uSTR}}.
::*We ''already'' have a full system to deal with icons having two lines with different details, it's used in the KRZ and TBHF icons, why renounce it for the parallel line icons? Pointedly ignoring m- in parallel lines has no justification to me.
::*Since I'm already changing so many names, I want to ensure that parallel lines that use changed roots (i.e. SBRUCKE, WYE...) are consistent with the new names!
::[[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 14:55, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

:::All in all I don't know what we might get ourselves into by changing the names, but make sure the name change is al least consistent! [[User:Vunz|Vunz]] ([[User talk:Vunz#top|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 09:01, 17 October 2011 (UTC)